DrewBlows
Go Tigers!
- Joined
- Jun 25, 2003
- Posts
- 2,031
Hi!
When I went through INDOC at Trans States, they told us we were not legal to block out, or legal to take off, if that specific leg could not be completed within our flight time AND duty time limitations.
If we blocked out, and we were OK for duty/flight time, and we subsequently encountered a taxi delay, that would've made us fly over our flight or duty time, we had to taxi back to the gate and we would be replaced by a legal crew.
I have read that other airlines interpret this differently, and they ARE allowed to block out/take off, if the whole TRIP was legal when they started.
It doesn't make sense to me that different -121 operators interpret this differently.
I think the regs need to be changed so that every understands them the same.
cliff
YIP
You are confusing duty time and flight time limitations.
Flight Time Limits
You cannot be scheduled to fly more than 8 hours between rest periods, 30 hours in any 7 day period, 100 hours in a calender month, or 100 hours in a calender year.
If your schedule is within flight time limits at the beginning of a duty period you are legal. It makes no difference how many hours you actually fly during that duty period as long as you fly the original schedule. Any reschedule must be scheduled within flight time limits. A diversion that continues to the original destination is not a reschedule. This is the "legal to start, legal to finish" rule and is the only time this rule should be used.
Duty Time Limits
Your maximum duty day is determined by the amount of rest that is required. I won't get into normal rest verses reduced rest except to say that it is determined by your scheduled flight time in any 24 hour period surrounding said rest.
For this example lets say your required rest (my term) is 8 hours (this is technically "reduced rest"). Since you must have 8 hours rest in a 24 hour period your maximum duty day, by default, is 16 hours (24-8). You cannot takeoff on any flight that will extend your duty day past 16 hours. Once you are in the air there isn't much you can do about it.
To calculate your the time you must be off the ground add your duty out time (usually a default time of 15 or 20 minutes depending on the company) to your taxi in time at your destination and your planned flight time (from the release), then subtract this time from the point you will hit 16 hours. For example, if your duty out time is 15 minutes, the taxi in time is 5 minutes, and the flight time is 1 hour, you must start your takeoff roll 1:20 prior to reaching 16 hours duty time. To calculate the time you must push from the gate subtract the taxi out time from your calculated planned takeoff roll time.
Clear as mud, right?
Most pilot contracts are more restrictive than the FARs, but you need to know the rules to keep yourself out of trouble. When scheduling tells you to do something that is illegal, you have to be able to be absolutely positive you are right or you will get in trouble.
I once argued a duty issue with one scheduler, one scheduling supervisor, and two chief pilots, all of whom disagreed with me. I was persistent though and finally found a scheduler who knew the rule and was able to explain it to the rest of them. If I hadn't known the rule I wouldn't have been persistent and I would have violated an FAR. I may or may not have gotten in trouble for it but thankfully I didn't have to find out.