121 deice conundrum

[VAPOR]

If you are deiced with type 1 fluid at the departure end of the runway and the holdover time expires before deicing is complete, may the deice crew legally conduct the pretakeoff contamination check?

 

[PFD1]

If they have an authorized person as part of the deice crew, then I don't see why not. I know the holdover time for type 1 is like nothing.

 

[VAPOR]

thanks - so my next question is - what are the requirements to be an "authorized person"? Can it be a regular member of the ground deice crew or is special additional training required?

 

[Nolife]

thanks - so my next question is - what are the requirements to be an "authorized person"? Can it be a regular member of the ground deice crew or is special additional training required?

"Authorized person" should be stated in your ops manual, in the Anti/deice section. Depending on the type of airplane you fly doing a tactile pretake-off contanination check at the end of the runway could be tricky.

 

[pilotyip]

You can take off after holdover time has expired. You just have to be sure the airplane is clean. The method of determining clean will vary with airline and airplane.

 

[atldc9]

You can take off after holdover time has expired. You just have to be sure the airplane is clean. The method of determining clean will vary with airline and airplane.

Yep, I've got to agree with Yip on this one. At my company, we can conduct a PreTakeoff Contamination Check from inside the airplane.

Check out htis year's changes to Holdover/Winter Op's here...

[SIZE=-1]www.faa.gov/other_visit/aviation_industry/airline_operators/airline_safety/media/FAAHOT2006-2007.doc


[/SIZE]

 

[great cornholio]

You can take off after holdover time has expired. You just have to be sure the airplane is clean. The method of determining clean will vary with airline and airplane.

This changed last year at my company. If the hold over time expired we had to go to the exit row and look at the wing. Then we had 5 mins to get off the ground. Unless it was freezing drizzle or light freezing rain then we had to go back to the gate for more de-ice. (that was the same procedure for both airlines I've worked at) Last winter my current company changed how we do things. Now if the hold over time expires we have to go back to the gate and get de-iced again no matter what. Which makes getting out of small out stations with only type I a little tricky. I thought that some of this seemed to change industry wide, as I remember hearing a lot more planes (from most airlines) return to the gate last winter after we changed our policy. And I think I remember something about our CP saying that it was pretty much industry wide, because it didnt make any sense to us when it came out.

 

[SSDD]

As has been stated before, your 121 deicing program should spell all this out. In typical fashion, the FAA freaked out after a couple of business jets crashed on takeoff a couple winters ago. Of course, neither accident had anything to do with hold over times. For us it was black and white, if your HOT expires, you had to go back and deice again. They seem to be backing down a little bit this winter.