10hr Multi @ AllATPs Riverside?

[Vik]

Anyone done this recently? I am planning on doing 5-10 hours dual at my local FBO in a Seminole and then going there and doing the 4 day/10hr program, and then maybe asking for more time if I am not confident.

I'd like some input from someone that has been there.

 

[Crizz]

For a multi rating?

I did mine in 3.1 hours including the checkride start to finish on the same day.

Its all about chair flying and being prepared.

 

[scubabri]

elfup!

 

[Crizz]

cooo-kaaayysss



(you're the first to notice!!)

 

[scubabri]

cofff-aaaay!!! Sorry, had to hijack the thread...

 

[Mu2Driver]

I did my Commercial Multi with ATP at Atlanta-Fulton County back in June '98. I did my check ride after 7 hours of instruction with no problem. If you have a good feel for the plane, and know their procedures, then there should be no problem completing the program in under 10 hours.

 

[JediNein]

Don't bother wasting brain time over feeling confident with the ATP course. Get in, get out, and then get your confidence elsewheres while logging that time as PIC. Don't even breathe about getting confident in the present of certain ATP instructors who seem to be born "macho."

I did the AllATPs 10 hour at RAL. I got the certificate. I had a decent instructor. And once the head mechanic realized where I was coming from, he was able to answer my maintenance-related question. Note: The brake linings on the Seminoles are far thinner than those on a Duchess or 99% of the GA airplanes I've worked on or preflighted.

But I got my confidence with multis elsewhere.

Fly SAFE!
Jedi Nein

 

[T-Gates]

I did my Commercial Multi with ATP at Atlanta-Fulton County back in June '98. I did my check ride after 7 hours of instruction with no problem. If you have a good feel for the plane, and know their procedures, then there should be no problem completing the program in under 10 hours.

Did you do the ride with Clyde Shelton or Friedman?

 

[STLCFII]

ALLATPS JAX/LAL

Hey!

Did anyone go through their program at Jacksonville or Lakeland? I'm thinking of doing thier Multi Com, ASAP 35 hr program, the MEI, and possibly the FMS course. I've read through their multi manual that you have to memorize before you arrive and it all seems pretty straight forward and laid out for you. I think the main thing is having their manual memorized before you arrive and are proficiend on instruments. I called them up the other day and they gave me the kinda visitors name/password to log on to their page in the student log in... Name: ATP P-word: 2552877 (their phone #). To me their programs seem pretty legit, but what really is the difference between their 35 hr program and that Ari Ben schools down in S. FL with 100 hrs for like 6K? Anyways, if anyone can give me info no the JAX or LAL centers it'd be appreciated!

Thanks

 

[JediNein]

what really is the difference between their 35 hr program and that Ari Ben schools

I did the calculations a while ago, looking for 100 hours of multi time. I ended up getting a job in a multi so never had to buy 100 hours, but here is the info anyway:

Allatps versus Ari-Ben
New and decent older airplanes with the latest GARMIN GPS avionics versus beaten up junk with at least one working radio. Probably both are airworthy per student comments. I can verify Allatps aircraft are ok.
Cross countries flown from point to point with someone keeping an eye on you versus mostly night flights to destinations unknown.
Lots of locations versus one.
Seminoles versus Duchesses.
Both are about 50% safety pilot time (just don't put in remarks that it is SAFETY PILOT time).
One is $13K and includes housing. The other is $5495K and does not include housing or taxes (6.5%). (30 bucks a night * 22 days = $660. Most hotels here are 55 and up, including Motel 6 = $1210.)
Ari vs. atp35 vs. atp90
IOW,
Price: $6938 vs. $11240 vs. $12950
Logbook hours filled: 100 vs. 120 vs. 105
Safety pilot hours: 47 vs. 47 vs. 37
Price per loggable hour: 69.38 vs. 93.67 vs. 123.33


Now it’s time for breakdown:
Ari:
100 hours total MEL
5 hours dual received.
47 hours safety pilot “PIC” (i.e. surrogate MEI)
48 hours sole manipulator of the controls, hood time.

Possibly 5 hours ground school

Cost
5495 course
100 insurance
300 checkout
383 SALES TAX (from latest Ft. Pierce statistics)
-----
6278 total

Needs?
Housing ($500, perhaps 30 bucks a night * 22 days = $660. Most hotels here are 55 and up, including Motel 6 = $1210)
Food
Charts
Foggles

Total with just housing (660) added in:
$6938

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
atps 35 * 3:
105 hours total MEL (repeated 35 hour program 3 times)
10 hours dual received (was a guru and the school waived repeating the dual received)
47 hours safety pilot “PIC” (i.e. surrogate MEI)
48 hours sole manipulator of the controls, hood time.

15 hours FTD time (remember 7 hours in the airplane to learn what could be learned in 1 hour in the FTD)
3 half days of ground school

Costs
10485 take 35 hour program 3 times
95 buy the cool shirts
------
10580 total

Needs?
Housing ($500, perhaps 30 bucks a night * 22 days = $660. Most hotels here are 55 and up, including Motel 6 = $1210)
Food
Charts
Foggles


Total with just housing (660) added in:
$11240
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
atps 90:
90 hours total MEL
15 hours dual received
37 hours safety pilot “PIC” (i.e. surrogate MEI)
38 hours sole manipulator of the controls, hood time.

15 hours FTD time, 10 dual received (remember 7 hours in the airplane to learn what could be learned in 1 hour in the FTD)
3 half days of ground school (assuming the same here)

Costs
12950 course
0.00 housing included
------
12950 total

Needs?
Food
Charts (for 500 nm radius, others reimbursed)
Foggles


Total with just housing (0) added in:
$12950


---
I did that [what is cost of PIC - captain - time] calculation, but it was scary.

6938 (plus more $$$ for fuel?) for 48 hours Captain time = $144.54 per hour
11240 for 48 hours Captain time = $231.17 per hour
12950 for 38 hours Captain time = $340.79 per hour

The insurance crackdown results in very few multis are available for rent without having an instructor on board. The one locally requires 2000 hours total time and 1000 hours multi time. If I had those times, I wouldn't need to fly their airplane. The junker on the field, a Seminole with an engine failure immenient [it did crash three months after I wrote this], wants 1000 hours total time and either 50 hours in type plus a 5 hour checkout, or a 25 hour checkout with one of their instructors. ($165 for the airplane, $45 for the MEI, that's comparable to option #2 w/o housing and other such stuff, $210 an hour and it is all dual received.)

Another school simply requires one of their instructors be on board at all times, either front or back seat. Well, that's awfully comforting, knowing a MEI is in the back seat with no access to the controls should something go seriously wrong.

I have not seen a large selection of good instructors to chose from in general, which makes having any of them on board an even more risky proposition. How do I know that the instructor's reactions will be correct?

Enjoy!
Jedi Nein

 

[STLCFII]

Thanks for the info Jedi, sounds like you put a lot of work into it!

One more question... How do you log the time as safety pilot? Do most people just log it as PIC I guess since they're incharge for the safety of the flight?

Thanks again! I appreciate the #s

 

[Mu2Driver]

Did you do the ride with Clyde Shelton or Friedman?

I did it with Friedman. I was scheduled to do it with Clyde Shelton out in Alabama, but they changed it the day of the check-ride to Friedman at FTY. I was somewhat disappointed because I was really looking forward to going with Clyde Shelton after all the good things I heard about him.

 

[T-Gates]

Clyde is the man!