Please help, what should I do?

[Varmint]

Go to EK and make 150k tax free, get some right seat 777 time, and enjoy all the perks for a few years. You might not want to go to Delta/UAL when they call.

Exactly. Take a pay raise the first year instead of a pay cut. Look into contracts/international flying if you and the family have any sort of interest in it.

 

[waveflyer]

You want to keep your learning curve steep-
Getting comfortable isn't attractive to recruiters- stay as a CA for as long as you feel you're still growing and then move to the next respectable carrier- show ambition-
It can be harder and you'll know people who stay in your seat who get straight to the good job- but I'd constantly be looking to improve your worst case as well-
What's nice is you don't have to go to just any stepping stone- The standard is will the job keep you learning and is the career better than pinnacle in case you never move on- crazy things happen man-
As far as money- plan for that- you're an airline pilot- no bmw's or new boats for a while
Good luck-

 

[waveflyer]

Ign and Dan said it well

Good idea on the Intl options too- why not have an adventure while you're at it-
Recruiters like interesting too

 

[Dumb Pilot]

The international option is not bad really but you must have due diligence with your research, there are some good jobs out there but there are bad ones too. Be aware that depending on age, marital status, age of your kids etc. the golden handcuffs and the easy lifestyle (once you go thru the nonesense of their training style) might make it a permanent decision, you have to see how many guys here at Air Japan came with that exact plan in mind, a place to hang your hat for a while until brand X starts hiring, but instead they find themselves married to a beautiful lady, living an easy life, traveling to exotic destinations while on their days off and not thinking about changing it for the world. My point is that plans seldomely get realized in aviation, it is all a big adventure and you just don't know where it will take you.

 

[cougarblue]

this is all such awesome advise and great insight. a lot to think about. keeping the learning curve steep, volunteer work, networking, etc... i think this is a good conversation to have for many of us little guys trying to figure out the future. Thanks for the well thought out replies!

-Cougarblue

 

[pilotyip]

+1 on this post. I moved around and flew for several airlines. At the time, they all seemed like big moves. In retrospect, a few years here or there isn't all that significant in the long run. So if you can go to somewhere that boosts your resume, it's worth it, providing it's also somewhere you would rather spend a career at should plan A not work. The JetBlue example was used. Keep in mind that SWA was a second tier job at one time and now they are a first tier career choice. I could see JetBlue doing the same thing (providing they vote in a union!)
The only thing you can be sure of is every airline will change dramatically over a 25 year time, so it's all crap shoot.

bingo this guy gets it

Background: regional captain 4000ish pic, check airman
Goal: United, Delta, Alaska, Hawaiian, FedEx

Do I take a job somewhere else (somewhere much better) in the meantime to pad the resume and take a >50% pay cut? Or do I stay and wait for somewhere I want to be long term to call? (Even though I don't have any really good contacts anywhere). It is tough to want to leave now that life is great and money is ok

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated

-cougar blue

All the preparation in the world does not guarantee you are making the right choices. Shows you just never know about that job.

I look at my highly qualified squadron mates and the moves they made. Like leaving FedEx for Braniff I in 1978 , it folded in 1982. We had another guy bail from GM Corp in 1979 for Braniff; he would have been at GM through the glory years. How about all the guys who bailed from SWA, UPS and FedEx for the major jobs at DAL, AAL, UAL etc in 2000. You just never know.

I reported aboard CVAN-65 USS Enterprise in 1975. At that time civilian flying jobs a scarce. I meet this guy who is getting out, going to work for company doing overnight mail, paid $400/mo for a F/O's job, he had to use his GI bill for training in the right seat of the DA-20. The company must have had a gov't contract I thought with a name like Federal Express. He stayed at FedEx, ran across him at a CO's conference in the late 80's he was like a double-digit seniority number.

It has been said that is will take you 10 years to determine if you made the right move. There is tremendous amount of luck in picking any job

 

[KarmaPolice]

All the preparation in the world does not guarantee you are making the right choices. Shows you just never know about that job.

I look at my highly qualified squadron mates and the moves they made. Like leaving FedEx for Braniff I in 1978 , it folded in 1982. We had another guy bail from GM Corp in 1979 for Braniff; he would have been at GM through the glory years. How about all the guys who bailed from SWA, UPS and FedEx for the major jobs at DAL, AAL, UAL etc in 2000. You just never know.


It has been said that is will take you 10 years to determine if you made the right move. There is tremendous amount of luck in picking any job

I agree with you, but I'd like to add that today's airline industry is not nearly as fractured as it was 30 years ago. Richard Anderson was quoted as saying last year was the first time in 24 years in the business that he was able to pass his increased costs onto the consumer. We are in the final stages of the deregulation process as companies are monopolizing.

Soon there will be three Major legacies left, all with route monopolies and worldwide networks that will enable them to earn premium prices and buffer them from fluctuations. Never say never, but looking forward in context of todays marketplace, it's difficult to imagine UAL, DAL, or the new AMR going the way of a Braniff or TWA.

Uncertainty will always exist, but the way to make good choices in an aviation career is similar to buying stock. Analyze the marketplace and buy according to long term trends. People historically made bad career choices because they looked primarily at pay and benefits. The person who left SWA for DAL in 99 is a prime example of this.

 

[HowardBorden]

Thanks everyone for the responses. Howardborden, This is definitely the easier route. I wonder if hiring practices have changed moving forward. What do you think? I Guess I put guys at a LCC in a different league than me, so I assume that Delta/United would do the same. Also I feel there is not much else I can do here at Pinnacle to make me more marketable. Pinnacle does have a streamline interview thing with Delta that would take several years (if at all) to fruition.

I suggested staying put because I think hiring practices have changed recently. Almost everyone is using a computer generated score to pick applicants to interview. There will be a lot of hiring in the next three years at several of the carriers you mentioned. I believe that the ability to place a check mark in the "check airman" box will substantially raise your credentials and land you interviews before others that can't check that box. I was also a regional check airman, and I strongly feel that credential alone landed me an interview at Southwest when I didn't have a 737 type rating. The check airman thing got me in the door without a type and I was able to fork out the dough for the rating after I had a conditional employment offer.

 

[AeroDMB]

Dogfish ninety minute IPA. The sixty minute stuff is for amateurs.

Didn't dare for that one but prefer deviant dales IPA or Kasske

 

[Green]

I suggested staying put because I think hiring practices have changed recently. Almost everyone is using a computer generated score to pick applicants to interview. There will be a lot of hiring in the next three years at several of the carriers you mentioned. I believe that the ability to place a check mark in the "check airman" box will substantially raise your credentials and land you interviews before others that can't check that box. I was also a regional check airman, and I strongly feel that credential alone landed me an interview at Southwest when I didn't have a 737 type rating. The check airman thing got me in the door without a type and I was able to fork out the dough for the rating after I had a conditional employment offer.

Might be smart to find out if your score is boosted higher via the check airman route or if it would be more beneficial to get some international 777/340 time. A big pay raise and lifestyle improvement would be an added benefit of going overseas. Might be worth it before you go do 25-35 years at one of the legacies.

 

[waveflyer]

He's already a check airman and has that on his résumé -
Once that box is checked and consolidated with some good time- move on up the latter

 

[sinkrate]

Legacy airlines recruiting practices are going to change significantly in the next decade. They must because the numbers don't work if they stick to their old habits.

In the 1990's, during the last big hiring wave, legacy carriers wanted a regional CA with 1 to 3 years in the left seat and no more than 3000 hours PIC. Once you were past that your odds of being interviewed decreased significantly. From this thread, and others, it would appear that is still the case - for now. With the stagnation of the last decade the majority of regional CA's are way past that window. The number of pilots in the window they look at is very small. Maybe not this year or next but eventually they won't be able to fill classes if they stick to that.

If you compare the number of retirements in this decade versus the number of 'regional' CA's every current CA will be hired several times by a legacy. Initially there will be a shortage of pilots for both the legaacy and regional carriers. What's going to happen when they can't fill classes? Several things - but one is they will raid their competitors regional carriers for newhires. CAL and DAL did this big time in the 90's. After NW realized what it was doing to their expenses to hire from their regionals they curtailed hiring pilots from their own network.

AMR has contractual obligations for flow thrus from Eagle. Don't expect AMR to take any more than the contractual requirement. That has been to court and should survive. DAL has limited obligations to hire from Mesaba and Compass and a significant commitment to hire from PCL. There are a couple of realistic scenarios that show DAL taking all the PCL CA's every couple of years. The carrier with no flow thru commitments is UAL/CAL.

Complicating the prognostication is HR departments have a much larger hand in the process now. Purples' and Widgets initial screening process was completely different the last time around. It looked a lot more like United's from the 90's.

Going forward - as another poster noted - the number of potential employers is going to be much smaller and the hiring process will be more bureaucratic.

So...for the OP if you are trying to increase your marketability I wouldn't look too long at what that meant the last decade. Going forward it is going to be different. My guess is the paint on the tail of your airplane is going to have a much larger impact on the numbers game you are going to be forced to play. If it is low cost blue everyone will interview you. If you are tied to a legacy that doesn't have a flow thru it will hurt your odds with that carrier. If it does have a flow thru it is hard to call. It could help - it might slow you down with that carrier.

Just one aspect of the decision to consider.

 

[pilotyip]

Legacy airlines recruiting practices are going to change significantly in the next decade. They must because the numbers don't work if they stick to their old habits.

and one of the things that will change by 2015 is the college degree will become preferred.

 

[igneousy2]

In the 1990's, during the last big hiring wave, legacy carriers wanted a regional CA with 1 to 3 years in the left seat and no more than 3000 hours PIC. Once you were past that your odds of being interviewed decreased significantly.

Correlation does not equal causation. I think if you had 3000 hours you were not getting hired because some other thing was wrong with you in the 90's...not BECAUSE you had 3000 hours PIC.

 

[waveflyer]

Almost every pilot you meet will have strong opinions on this-
Many will be convinced of a process that's just wrong-

Become a student of your career and remember that every airline will have just enough of a unique process to decipher who really wants to work for them- so dont cookie cut this