College Aviation Programs

[surfnole]

My son is a senior in high school and is interested in aviation as a career. What college options are out there where he could get a degree and ratings? I know Embry Riddle, but that's too expensive.

Should he go to college anywhere and work on ratings on the side?

 

[pilotyip]

The country needs all the college-educated citizens it can have, its raises the level of knowledge to keep this as the greatest country in the world. Real degrees in business, engineering, the sciences, math, and medicine provide a graduate with marketable skills. If you are going to go to college, get a real degree from a real university. But it is not needed for a successful start of your aviation career. This following example in the model of success in pursing flying job. We hired a 20 year old pilot a few years ago, 1 year of on-line college credit completed, started working the ramp pumping gas in high school, got hired hauling cargo in SA-227 as an F/O, at 18, got promoted to 208 Capt. at age 20, he has 1600 TT, 1100 MEL, 350 Turbine PIC, 1450 total turbine, he is started as a DA-20 F/O at $33K, he was a DA-20 Capt. the day he turned 23, he had his degree completed by the time he was 26 years old. At that time he should had 5200 TT, 4700 MEL, 5050 Turbine, 3200 hours 121 time, 1200 121 Turbo Jet PIC. He had his on-line BS degree in Aviation Management that our company helped pay for through the tuition assistance program, and no debt. He will be interviewing with the 4 or 5 year traditional college graduate for his first airline job, The traditional 4 yr. degree guy who has TT 1200 350 MEL 15 Turbine. Who is the more competitive? For the There are many ways to skin a cat; many have the idea that the only way is 4 years of college followed by your first job. This they feel is the only way anyone should do things is, "The way I did it”. If anyone asks me about college and pursuing a flying career, I will recommend he not go to college full time, but follow the other time tested path where I have seen too many people succeed. That is fly full time, do your degree on the side, build time, build your resume. I will not debate the fall back value of a college degree, as I have stated many times it is nearly worthless after not being used for 20 years. The degree is only needed at the last step. Pilots get hired because they have TJ PIC. The full time college guy at age 25 has 0 TJ PIC, the non-traditional path guy has 1000 TJ PIC, both have 4 yr. degrees who gets hired?

 

[kf4amu]

Full time flying, degree on the side. Even a ERAU online degree is 30,000 which is 1/4 the cost of full time attendance on campus.

 

[neonflyer]

College depends on how you value education. As for programs, there are many other than Embry Riddle. There is Ohio State University, Purdue, Daniel Webster College in NH, Arizona State, and the University of North Dakota, which has very cold winters.
Even All ATP now has an agreement with Mountain State University.

All programs are different and it starts with how often a person has access to aircraft. UND for example owns the aircraft and schedules a flight lab 3x/wk similar to a chemistry lab. Some of the other programs do not own the aircraft and scheduling is first come, first served.

Think about the education you want, see if the school also has flying and tour facilities to make sure it meets your satisfaction. Hope this helps and good luck.

 

[JohnDoe]

Should he go to college anywhere and work on ratings on the side?

^^^ This

Do not get duped into spending crazy amounts of money getting ratings at an aviation college. It doesn't matter where he gets his ratings from. Myself and thousands of others are proof of that.

Don't let him get saddled with student loan debt to have hanging around his neck while he is making the meager earnings of entry-level pilot positions.

I have to disagree about the "college on the side" statements. Putting it off often results in it never getting done, as something always ends up getting in the way (work schedule, lack of money, eventual family, you name it.)

The simple fact of the matter is that some companies require a 4 year degree. You could have 5000 hours of turbojet pic, but if you don't have the degree it doesn't matter.

You also need to take pilotyip's posts with a grain of salt as the devil is in the details that he leaves out of his posts. That "airline" he refers to or "airline interview" the pilot's in his examples have are often the 121 "airline" UsaJet.... an on-demand freight hauler and charter-like passenger operation.

 

[DieselDragRacer]

I agree with the above and offer this. Not all kids graduate HS and are ready to go off to college and take a full load of classes at 18yo. If your son isn't exactly a scholastic achiever and could use a year to mature, you might let him get his ratings while working at the local FBO then let him go off to school a year later.

 

[pilotyip]

^^^ This

Don't let him get saddled with student loan debt to have hanging around his neck while he is making the meager earnings of entry-level pilot positions.

I have to disagree about the "college on the side" statements. Putting it off often results in it never getting done, as something always ends up getting in the way (work schedule, lack of money, eventual family, you name it.)

The simple fact of the matter is that some companies require a 4 year degree. You could have 5000 hours of turbojet pic, but if you don't have the degree it doesn't matter.

You also need to take pilotyip's posts with a grain of salt as the devil is in the details that he leaves out of his posts. That "airline" he refers to or "airline interview" the pilot's in his examples have are often the 121 "airline" UsaJet.... an on-demand freight hauler and charter-like passenger operation.

Agree with most of what you say, but if you do not have the discipline to stick with the 4-yr. degree program on the side, then I guess you will need the support of a full time 4- yr. degree college. BTW the interview I was referring to was a major airline interview, where my example pilot was offered a job. At JUS we don't even ask about a degree, because we know it has nothing to do with being a good pilot. We have hired too many 4-yr. degree pilots and non 4-yr. degree pilots who can not fly, and have hired too many 4-yr. degree pilots and non-degreed pilots who can fly. There is no correlation between the degree and skills and ability.

 

[paulsalem]

Have him get a degree or technical skill in something other than aviation.

Buy a C-150 or something similar for him to do most of his ratings in, he then can use it to instruct when he gets a CFI. You could also put it on leaseback with the local FBO.

 

[BEfly]

Spartan in Tulsa is another option along with the others mentioned. All good schools. I think the 141 training is valueable, it incorporates ground school with the flying progress as well as meteorology and systems and he gets college credit for all. All in all, half of the college credits are coming from flying related classes. The problem there is the money! Better start applying for loans, grants and scholorships now! I got 8K in that stuff by applying and writing a few essays. I'm 60K in the hole versus 68K. I pay $120/month....easily managable.

 

[no1pilot2000]

Why do some airlines require or prefer a pilot to have a 4 year college degree in order to work for them?

 

[kf4amu]

Why do some airlines require or prefer a pilot to have a 4 year college degree in order to work for them?

Probably because it shows long term commitment to a moderately difficult goal.

For whatever that's worth in this short term outlook, come and go operators, of an industry

 

[pilotyip]

Why do some airlines require or prefer a pilot to have a 4 year college degree in order to work for them?

makes it easier to screen out resumes, and that might have some statistics that these college grads make less speeling mistakes when filling out the logbook than non-college grads. But I personally know it has nothing to do with flying an airplane. BTW This college degree thing becomes much less important during a hiring boom, like the that will start next year.

 

[ksu_aviator]

I agree with the above and offer this. Not all kids graduate HS and are ready to go off to college and take a full load of classes at 18yo. If your son isn't exactly a scholastic achiever and could use a year to mature, you might let him get his ratings while working at the local FBO then let him go off to school a year later.

This idea is great. Have him take a year to get all the way through his MEI and then send him to college for a business or accounting degree or something. That way he can work part time as an instructor while going to college. By the time he graduates, he'll have enough time to get a job at a regional or charter company and when he does get furloughed (and we all get furloughed at some point) he'll have an unrelated degree to fall back on.

 

[infoman]

Surfnole,

First; your child needs to be a self starter. If you can say "yes" without a doubt...ask your child what they want too study. Once you both understand what the goal is you will find the answers. I will not document my own journey in aviation but I had the "self starter" covered when I decided my path. I will say one thing too motivate...it has been an amazing journey.

Infoman.

 

[CrimsonEclipse]

Broward College Near Ft. Lauderdale.

 

[Friend]

Southeastern oklahoma state university best value for your dollar
www.su.edu. DURANT, OK 74701

 

[LearLove]

While I think the aviation type degree programs are great they do lock the person into one career in aviation for the most part. Unless your last name is Hilton or Kennedy and you (or your kid) can afford to go back to college if they cannot fly (medical DQ) or furloughed then I would recommend getting a degree in something other than aviation. Look to engineering/science or a business BA/BS degree. In high school and during the summers in college send your kid to the local FBO to get his/her PVT, INST, COMM/MEL and CFI.

I started taking lessons in high school and had my comm/mel and cfi by my senior year in college and was building time (CFIing) before I got my degree (outside aviation).

This day in age I would plan on spending 30K for your kids ratings at a local FBO.

 

[pilotyip]

I would recommend getting a degree in something other than aviation. Look to engineering/science or a business BA/BS degree. In high school and during the summers in college send your kid to the local FBO to get his/her PVT, INST, COMM/MEL and CFI.

The fall back value of a college degree is greatly over rated. I have a BS and a Master's in Management, but at age 53, I was making $250/wk loading cargo. After Zantop pretended to go out of went out of business in 1997, I had been a temporary High School Chemistry Teacher up until two weeks before the cargo job came along. However, they do not teach school in the summer so I had to take the cargo job. The value of an unused degree is highly over rated. 53 year old unemployed airline pilots are not eagerly greeted in any industry that I know of, even of having a couple degrees. Of course, I did not apply for many of the "College degree preferred jobs" such as apt manager, telephone direct sales, and plumping floor manager at Home Depot, etc. If you get a college degree you have to use, the knowledge gained in college to develop a career or the degree is useless. After getting a degree, flying an airplane is not a knowledge expanding experience; it is skill development experience. Anyone care to chime in and share their experiences on entering the non-aviation job market after being out of college 20-30 years?

 

[coffeedog]

I would recommend some form of formal structured training to become a professional pilot. Jets are so much more common in low experience positions than in the past, and anyone flying a modern jet needs to know the aerodynamics of high altitude flight. The FBO patchwork education just doesn’t ensure a comprehensive coverage of this type of essential information. For example clean minimum maneuver speed at 5000’ is not the same as at F390. The FBO education has not proven to be a reliable source for this type of essential information.

As far as a 4yr degree at age 53, a technical degree such as engineering will have become outdated, while a management degree should age more gracefully. I agree that all will become somewhat “stale” in marketability after 30 years of non-use. Perhaps a better backup plan is an education that the student could use directly in their own small business?

 

[deej]

To add my experience to this discussion. I have a Master's Degree in Accounting. A degree I completed while flying for a regional airline full time. Five years at the regional and no upgrade to captain, thus no PIC (in fact, classmate still with the company and a 10 year FO). Flew for a large fractional and then furloughed. I have been looking for an accounting job for 1.5 years with no success, only experience is internship as auditor.
Conclusion, I would not recommend getting an aviation degree, but also an degree in another field while flying has not served me well personally so far.
My recommendation from my personal experience is do not go into aviation.