Northwest pilots blame air traffic controllers for overshooting airport

[DieselDragRacer]

http://www.usatoday.com/travel/flights/2009-12-07-northwest-pilots-blame_N.htm

 

[SpauldingSmails]

Didn't coordinate effectively with NWA dispatchers!?

My respect-o-meter for these two sinks closer to the zero peg every time they open their pie holes.

 

[Grandpa +65]

They should be suspended forever for coming up with such a LAME defense!!!

 

[ExAF]

Lawyers are Involved Now

They should be suspended forever for coming up with such a LAME defense!!!

I doubt "they" came up with this defense. Start thinking more like a lawyer than a pilot if you want to figure this stuff out.

 

[Raoul Duke]

they deserve what they got

 

[Stifler's Mom]

Cole also said in his filing that he should not be punished or his punishment should be mitigated because he relied on Cheney as the pilot in command of the aircraft to fulfill his responsibilities.

I understand the PIC has the ultimate resposbility of the AC, but geez, whatever happened to taking responsibility for your screwup and hoping somebody takes mercy on you?

It's not like Cole was a 250-hour wonder at a Regional with his head up his ass when he goes to work. At least he's not supposed to be.

 

[Kharma Police]

I wouldn't expect anything less, it's the American way, "everybody else's fault but mine".

Not only are these jerk-offs going to give the feds an excuse to listen to CVRs and put cameras in the cockpit, now ATC and Dispatchers will have to baby sit us all through the flight maybe through direct video feed!

 

[Networ-King]

I wouldn't expect anything less, it's the American way, "everybody else's fault but mine".

I hate the fact that your quote is spot on..... what a screwed up system.

Net

 

[PropPiedmont]

77 minutes....................Wow.

 

[Dizel8]

I also think it is ATCs and the dispatchers fault, I mean if they never had let this flight take off, none of this would have ever happened.

 

[pair_of_pratts]

It's the passengers fault. If they hadn't bought the tickets, none of this would have happened.

 

[JT12345]

They are doing what their attonerys' tell them to do, and they should.

I would fight just like them especially when there are ASAP violations, and confidentiality violations by the NTSB that are a threat to safety programs that have made the industry safety record what it is today.

I don't know what is going on overthere at the NTSB, but they seem to have gone nuts since the bufflo accident.

I have seen much stupider conversations on the flight deck that should not be happening like guys using their 4 stripes as a soapbox for their political views that just becomes a distraction and unprofessional nonsense.

 

[no1pilot2000]

I doubt these "pilots" (and I use that term loosly) will be returning to the unfiendly skies again. I wouldn't even trust them as flight instructors. How long will they keep on passing the beer around until it gets warm? Well, another lesson learned in the airline business.

 

[Ty Webb]

They are doing what their attonerys' tell them to do, and they should.

I would fight just like them especially when there are ASAP violations, and confidentiality violations by the NTSB that are a threat to safety programs that have made the industry safety record what it is today.

Agreed. The "Emergency Revocation" order was ridiculous and over-the-top. Did any of you read it? I did.

These guys were denied due process. We still don't know what happened, and probably never will, since the FAA decided to handle it this way. Most of you guys are on here slamming them, yet no one has heard their side of the story.

 

[av8tor76]

"no side of their story" will explain their lack of situtational awareness!!...forget about the radio relay, the crewmeals, the computer stuff and the support of the pastor..NOTHING can explain NOT doing your job and looking at your screens/instruments every once in awhile to see what the frick the airplane's doing...

 

[Ty Webb]

"no side of their story" will explain their lack of situtational awareness!!...forget about the radio relay, the crewmeals, the computer stuff and the support of the pastor..NOTHING can explain NOT doing your job and looking at your screens/instruments every once in awhile to see what the frick the airplane's doing...

You don't seem to get it; the issue isn't whether or not it appears they screwed up, the issue is that they were denied due process and the ability to voice their side of the story. This isn't North Korea or Iran, and there was no need to deny these guys a hearing.

 

[rumrunner300]

You don't seem to get it; the issue isn't whether or not it appears they screwed up, the issue is that they were denied due process and the ability to voice their side of the story. This isn't North Korea or Iran, and there was no need to deny these guys a hearing.

The ARE getting a hearing so you can dispense with the "Axis of Evil" hyperbole. (www.m-w.com)

I agree with the end result of the emergency order but it would have been better to hang this a$$wipes the way they do any other jerkoff. Technically, they are getting "due process" with the NTSB hearing, albeit by a rather high standard of review.

From the report that the "captain" gave to a fellow union brother, I can understand how they got into that position, however, I can't in any way, shape, or form understand how they remained there.

Any pilot who believes that these two should ever occupy the cockpit of a commercial aircraft again should take a hard look at the standards they are applying to themselves........ then quit.

 

[phx757fo]

You know guys can run off the runway, bend/destroy A/C, kill passengers, kill pedestrians and they don't have an FAA enforcement. But these guys make a BIG MISTAKE! Let's face it they were asleep at the wheel/stick. They did NOT bent an airplane, hurt any passengers, or run out of gas. Granted they should own up to it. But the law does not work that way. I believe they should be retrained even possibly loose there jobs. But the FAA took away their way of making a living without due process. Delta removed them from the line the next day.

 

[Ty Webb]

the most judgemental pilots are not superior aviators, just magement's wet dream

The ARE getting a hearing so you can dispense with the "Axis of Evil"

No, they are not getting a hearing; they are getting to appeal an Emergency Revocation.

Appealing an Emergency Revocation is a lot different than going through an investigation and a hearing.

I would suspect that the louder one screams and rails against these guys, the younger and more inexperienced the person is that's making the noise. . . .

This case doesn't directly affect you or me, but the Emergency Revocation without a hearing is very troubling, and the repercussions from this will stink even worse.

Seems to me that the most judgemental pilots among us are not superior aviators, they are just management's wet dream, and you, my friend, are management's wettest dream.

Congratulations, pal. Karma's a bitch, hope you enjoy being married to her.:laugh:

 

[Bringupthebird]

Any pilot who believes that these two should ever occupy the cockpit of a commercial aircraft again should take a hard look at the standards they are applying to themselves........ then quit.

How much does that high horse of yours eat a day? From what you're leaving behind here in your comments, I way underestimated.

 

[Corbon]

No, they are not getting a hearing; they are getting to appeal an Emergency Revocation.

Appealing an Emergency Revocation is a lot different than going through an investigation and a hearing.

I would suspect that the louder one screams and rails against these guys, the younger and more inexperienced the person is that's making the noise. . . .

This case doesn't directly affect you or me, but the Emergency Revocation without a hearing is very troubling, and the repercussions from this will stink even worse.

Seems to me that the most judgemental pilots among us are not superior aviators, they are just management's wet dream, and you, my friend, are management's wettest dream.

Congratulations, pal. Karma's a bitch, hope you enjoy being married to her.:laugh:

I understand what you're saying but these guys didn't do themselves any favors. They should have shut their pieholes until they had proper representation and forced the FAA to build their case. Instead, they gave the authorities and the media plenty of rope to hang them, starting when they pulled into the gate.

"We were having a heated discussion...well, no it wasn't that. We were having bidding lessons on our laptops"

If authorities are waiting in the jetway to talk to you, that may be an indication you need to STFU and call your union right now.

 

[HOMER D POE]

what a screwed up system

seems to me the most judgemental pilots among us are not superior aviators

DUMBA$$ statement #1 ...they slept, they F'up, they're out of a job

DUMBA$$ statement #2 ...you have no idea who is superior since these two schmucks are branded for the rest of their lives. every party they go to, they'll get asked, "what took you so long?" overshoot the driveway?

it is pathetic..seems to me

 

[jetflier]

Rumor has it that the actual circumstances surrounding this situation are not as colorful as all the bantering.

 

[bubbers44]

We had a captain with a day one FO refuse to go around when told to by a controller because of an abort on the runway. He ended up off the runway broken in half when he put the gear up before stopping his descent, tore off the right engine on a very late go around attempt. The 737 was a hull loss. He went to FO for a year and came back as a captain. They wouldn't have even called him into the office if he overflew MSP. I'm not saying these pilots shouldn't be disciplined but a lot of pilots are flying today that have made much worse errors. I think ATL FAA was trying to make up for past lax handling of Delta. No hearing to me means they wanted to show the public while the incident was still top news that they were tough. What ever happened to the pilots at Delta that landed in ATL on a taxiway just before this event? Oh, thats right, Delta is based in ATL.

 

[Fearless Tower]

We had a captain with a day one FO refuse to go around when told to by a controller because of an abort on the runway. He ended up off the runway broken in half when he put the gear up before stopping his descent, tore off the right engine on a very late go around attempt. The 737 was a hull loss. He went to FO for a year and came back as a captain.

Air California at SNA by any chance???

 

[bubbers44]

Yup. It closed the airport for several days.

 

[volav8r1]

I doubt these "pilots" (and I use that term loosly) will be returning to the unfiendly skies again. I wouldn't even trust them as flight instructors. How long will they keep on passing the beer around until it gets warm? Well, another lesson learned in the airline business.

I tried to ignore this comment but just couldn't! You sir are a complete and total IDIOT!!!!!!! No one is defending what these guys did was right. I'm not saying they aren't lying about what happened or that they are handling this well. But to hear some 250 hour "Private Pilot" or "Student Pilot" or whatever it is you are, say that you wouldn't trust these two guys as Flight Instructors is an absolute insult!

It's people like you that make most of us cringe when you come up to the cockpit and tell us that we did something wrong and you know we did, because you are a private pilot! Give me a break! You don't know $HIT!

These guys have had long carreers of safely flying people all over the world & have done it without a single blemish on their record until now. I personally don't understand how this could happen, but I wasn't there. I'm not going to hang them out to dry because I know something that you don't....We all make mistakes as pilots! We fly in the real world of aviation where there are more factors to consider than how scary that 7 knot crosswind is, or how cool you look with your new IFR Kneeboard!

You say you use the term Pilot "Loosely" for these guys?! Really?!
How would you know what a pilot is? Let me be the first to assure you that YOU are NOT a pilot!

Now go call the FBO and get your C-152 topped off with 100LL so you can practice your "Touch & Go's" in the pattern. Just don't forget your MAG Check! Oh, and caution for the Wake Turtbulence from the departing King Air!!! Dumb A$$

 

[Whine Lover]

"We had a captain with a day one FO refuse to go around when told to by a controller because of an abort on the runway. He ended up off the runway broken in half when he put the gear up before stopping his descent, tore off the right engine on a very late go around attempt. The 737 was a hull loss."

" He went to FO for a year and came back as a captain."

Now THAT, is Talent. (!)


YKW

 

[licorice]

Air California at SNA by any chance???

This is off the subject, but where did you get your avatar? Are you a fan of Bonanza Air Lines? The first airplane I ever flew on was a BAL F-27 "silver dart" from Vegas to Reno in 1961...It was thrilling as a 5 yr. old, and I attribute that and later flights on Bonanza F-27s as a big part of my motivation to become a pilot. I was sort of BAL "obsessed" as a kid...do you have any connection with Bonanza?

 

[samballs]

I love reading USA today today, the FO is also saying he should not be suspended because he relies on the Capt to perform his PIC duties, and the Capt failed to act as PIC. great Guy. these 2 have everyone but themselves to blame