Netjets QOL vs. senior regional CA

[TheCheat]

I'm a senior CA at one of the "better" regionals and thinking about making the change and getting out of the airlines for good. The money seems to be quite similar for the first 5 years or so vs. staying here, which is fine.

I'm interested in knowing about the differences in QOL, schedules, hours, work rules, etc, and how they compare.

But mostly I'm interested in hearing from people who have made a similar leap and how they feel about it today. Any regrets, or was it the best career move you've made? It's hard to imaging wanting to go back to the airlines with the industry being in it's current state.

Thanks.

 

[Cpt Kangaroo]

came over early last year from RP.
What's better?
work half the year fly 1/3 the amount, get paid more money, OT, salaried, extended/holiday pay, fed three times a day, keep per diem, Atlantic bucks, avtrip points, zero premium benefits monthly, great union leadership, zero spoke and hub, good people, etc etc. Stable company with tremendous financial backing, growth, aircraft orders. And folks the reality is that wealthy people don't get poorer.

MTC
Good luck to all!!!

 

[Strikefinder]

I've only been here a few months, but I would never go back. I left at roughly the top 15% of seniority at RAH. There are many others who have been here longer with similar sentiments.

 

[learflyer]

Dang. who is going to fly us fracsters to work?

 

[fischman]

There is no such thing as a good regional. Come on over.

 

[Ben Johnson]

airline flying... if that S'nM stuff is bag, sure. Or if you don't like rubbing your anckles

 

[captain dad]

Each his or her own and God bless you for it.

For me...I left a regional after nine years and would have been in the top 100 if I had stayed. I don't regret a single thing and will never go back if I have anything to say about it.

Considering how the majors have all stopped hiring and are parking planes now that the fuel has gone up again, I think you would be lucky to get on with NJA.

The QOL is better than I have ever heard of at any airline gig and the best I have personally had.imp:

 

[CA1900]

I'm a senior CA at one of the "better" regionals and thinking about making the change and getting out of the airlines for good.

I made a similar move about a year and a half ago.

The money seems to be quite similar for the first 5 years or so vs. staying here, which is fine.

When comparing, obviously you want to compare the base pay first and foremost. But it's worth factoring in the health benefits, too; at some companies, that can be worth thousands in premiums that you'd have to pay, but which are free at NetJets. Plus, If you can afford to max out the 401K, the company will match 50% of what you contribute, up to 15% of your salary. That's another $4266 for a 7/7 guy on first-year pay.

You also stand a chance at getting overtime, holidays, and extra workdays, but I wouldn't include those in your budget when comparing, because nothing's guaranteed with that kind of thing.

Here's how I'd look at the compensation package, from a dollar point of view (all rates are for a Year 1 FO, on the 7/7 schedule)

Basic Salary: $56,875
Insurance for family: $4000 approx value
401k Match (max contribution): $4266
Total: $65,141

As far as "soft money" goes, let's assume you average just 3 hours of overtime a tour, times 24 tours (remember, two weeks paid vacation first year!), at $39.06 an hour, that's another $2812. (Remember, OT is a big "if," and depends largely on your fleet. The 400XP guys rarely see any OT; us Excel guys see it quite a bit.)

Holidays are also paid a bonus if you work them. Let's assume your 7/7 schedule crosses 4 of the 10 designated holidays, at $468.75 apiece. That's another $1875.

Also, if the company fails to get you home before midnight on your last day -- even if it's an airline delay -- it costs them two extended days' payments as a penalty for keeping you working on a day off. You can probably plan on at least one, so we'll add another $937.50.

Added together, that's about another $5625 of potential money, give or take. Also consider that, as you'll be taking most of the per-diem home because of the crew meals, that's another $5800 or so that you'll probably take home, tax free. I like the sauce, so knock $2000 off of that for my annual beer budget.

I'm interested in knowing about the differences in QOL, schedules, hours, work rules, etc, and how they compare.

QOL is generally much better, in my opinion. First and foremost, there's no jumpseating to work, no commuting, no standby lists, no crashpads, no coming into work the night before when you're on reserve, "just in case" -- none of that stuff. You get a showtime by 6pm on your last day off. That's it, and it won't change. You report to the crew base you choose. If you airline, it's on real, paid ticket.

Hotels are generally very good; normally a Hilton, a Hyatt, a Doubletree -- that level of hotel. Sometimes you'll get something lesser, but they're usually still pretty good. You'll get loyalty points for the hotels, too -- so you not only get a free flight from the airlines to work, but you get a free room when you go on vacation!

With the majority of our hotels, we've also negotiated to have full breakfast (which can be $20 at many of these good hotels) and internet (another $10-13) included in the rate, so you won't be on the hook for those. That's thousands of dollars in savings right there!


Other stuff....

Jepps belong to the airplane, not the pilot. So no lugging a big chart case around. Sounds minor, but it's sure nice traveling with just a suitcase and a laptop bag. We do the Jepp updates in the plane when we get down time (or, if necessary, we'll call in to extend the end of our day to get them done before we go to the hotel). Since there are several hundred airplanes flown by several thousand pilots, more often than not you'll find someone else beat you to doing the Jepps, which is nice. (Then again, pilots being the lazy SOBs they are, sometimes you'll find some slacker left you half a dozen of them to do. It all evens out in the end, I guess.)

Some don't like being out for 7 days at a time. For me, the 7 days at home more than offsets it.
(And that turns a week of vacation into 21 days off in a row!) But each person has to make that call for himself.

The only negative QOL issue for me is that you really don't have control over when you work on a particular day. You can't bid all evening trips, for example. You're on the hook for (normally) 7 days, and it might be mornings, evenings, or a combination of the two. One contractual provision helps things a little bit: If you report before 8am on your first day of a tour, that time before 8 is paid hourly overtime, as is the time past 9 hours of duty. I've had tours recently with 4:30am reports on the first day, which stinks. But then I see that at $50.83 per duty hour, that early wakeup and 12-hour day turned into an extra ~$381. That eases the sting a bit.


And here's the best part, both for your sanity and your (and your passengers') safety: If you're too fatigued to fly, whether it's for a noisy hotel, ridiculous schedule, or whatever, you just call in and tell them you're fatigued. That's it. Somebody else flies your trip, and you go get some more rest. You just fill out a report online (takes about 30 seconds) giving a rough idea why you got fatigued. No discipline for it.

Being able to cry "uncle" and get some sleep, and not have to risk a carpet dance in front of your chief pilot, is a huge QOL factor that's absolutely critical to have, especially considering how varied our schedules can be. Quite the difference from my previous job, where I was told I "can eat lunch and dinner on your 3 hour break in the afternoon" because the turns during the rest of the day were 20 minutes long.

Any regrets, or was it the best career move you've made?

Best move I've ever made, hands-down. My only real regret is that I didn't make the move a few years sooner, but I honestly don't think I could have done it under the contract before the November 2005 one. I really appreciate what the guys before me did to help make this not just a better job, but a really good job. We have an amazing group of pilots here.

I really like the variety. It sure beats flying in and out of the same hub over and over again. There are some cities you'll see a lot -- TEB, HPN, PBI, MIA -- and some beautiful places you'd have never seen at a regional. Dropping passengers off and spending the night in Cabo one day, then in Puerto Rico a couple of days later, makes for an interesting tour. Then you hit Teterboro, and wish you were still in Mexico.



One caution I'll add: while flying planes in our "business," it's only a small part of what a NetJets pilot does. You're also restocking and tidying up the airplane, chasing down rental cars with FBOs, ordering services (fuel, lav services, oil, window washes, etc.) as needed, and so forth. It might even involve rolling up a newspaper and pushing a dookie down into the lav. It happens. (I find the "Elite Traveler" magazine especially suited to that task. Heh.)

You'll get a lot of support from the company (flight planning, ordering catering, etc.), but a lot of things fall on our shoulders to solve if they start to fall apart. If you can accept that stuff as an integral part of your job, rather than an adjunct to rush through and get back to the flying part, you'll adapt just fine. If all you want to do is drive the plane, it'll be a tough road.
ß

Being proactive and trying to solve the problems early goes a long way toward making life easier for our share owners. After all, they're not choosing us because we're $3 cheaper than the other guy. They're investing in us (literally) because we can provide a total package for them, and take care of all the details with a simple phone call. And the pilots play a big part of filling in some of the gaps.

Here's a story from a couple months ago to give you an idea what I'm talking about... We're scheduled to take a gentleman and his wife into Truckee, but the weather's really not making it look good. There's not much of an instrument approach to begin with due to terrain. We might get in, and the forecast is legal to launch, but looking at the weather myself, it just doesn't seem likely. So I offer that up to our owner, so he can decide himself whether he wants to try it, and divert, or do something else, like just go to Reno and drive.

His answer: "Guys, I trust your judgment. If you think it's not likely we'll get in, let's just skip it entirely and go to Reno, OK?" (I wish everybody were that understanding!)

We make one phone call to the company, and a new release is on the way, a rental car is booked for our owner in Reno, and we're on our way in a matter of minutes. Upon arrival in Reno, the couple finds the rental car ready and waiting for them, and they're on their way in no time. By planning ahead and heading off a potential problem, we probably saved them an hour of their time between skipping the inevitable missed approach at Truckee, and trying to scramble for a rental car in Reno when we dropped in unplanned at the FBO.

That kind of service is why this method of travel is so addictive, and why our clients keep coming back. (I wish I could afford a share!) Quite a contrast to my airline flight to work this week, where a mechanical problem caused me to miss my connection in MEM, and I got to enjoy the terminal for 7 hours to wait for the next flight. But hey, I got a $10 food voucher...


Hope that helps give you an idea!

 

[imacdog]

One would think that the word is out by now that any move away from any regional is probably a good idea.

 

[CALRepublic]

Several guys who fly for the majors are inquiring about NetJets, and you are at a regional. That should tell you something.

Don't just focus on NetJets, CS and FX are very good companies, with strong backing.

 

[G200_PILOT]

Threads like this still amaze me. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad to see that good guys with real flight time are looking at NJA as a final leap. It's just the fact of having to even come here and ask...

There are endless amounts of threads/posts that explain why NJA is the best place to work when compared to ANY regional, frac, or lagacy carrier for that matter.

Put your app in and enjoy the fact of knowing you're day's are no longer numbered. (retirement OR furlough)

 

[amaineiac]

CA1900, I think I speak for a lot of guys here when I say thanks for all the informative posts you've added.

Keep them coming, they are great.

 

[glasspilot]

one of the "better regionals"

That's great. Really. Thanks for the laugh.

The worlds greatest, bestest, love to go fly regional is LIGHT YEARS behind the worlds worst fractional.




NOTE TO FUTURE REGIONAL POSTERS:


Your "better regional" is crap.

 

[FLYLOW22]

Stayed in a $595 per night bungalo on the Gulf of Mexico last night about 90 miles from Cuba. Met some wonderful Owners who were happy to be new to the program and kiss Delta goodbye forever. Flew 3 legs and off to the Doubletree courtesy of a town car.

A few more days to go and back to home for a week off.

I'm sure there is probably a good reason to stay at a regional... I just can't think of one. Personally, I think that all 121 companies are in for lots of turbulence ahead. I won't subject my family to that given the option.

This is the type of job that makes a pilot happy that he/she did things right so they can get a good crack at getting hired.

 

[CALRepublic]

Threads like this still amaze me. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad to see that good guys with real flight time are looking at NJA as a final leap. It's just the fact of having to even come here and ask...

I feel the same the way, but I also understand that for the last 40 years, everyone's (or most) ultimate goal was to get to a major. That was where the search ended. Now all of a sudden Netjets comes into the picture. The whole scenario changed rapidly, it caught many people by surprise.

I know where they're coming from when they ask these questions. I think its a fair question

 

[G200_PILOT]

Trust me, I'm glad he's asking the question as well. My point was simply to say that if, after reading the 100 threads about how great NJA is, he's still looking for MORE advice... something's not clicking...

TheCheat... You're at a point in your career where you're starting to question if you current place of employment is where you want to be in the next year or two. Otherwise you wouldn't be here asking these sorts of questions. Take the leap and come on over. You'll NEVER look back and say "Gosh, I wish I wouldn't have left ____________ for this place."

 

[gunfyter]

I would guess conservatively that 80-90% of the pilots at NJ plan on staying until they retire from flying.

What percentage of pilots flying at the "better" Regionals plan on retiring from those companies?

 

[CA1900]

Just Pocono Pilot. :laugh:

 

[VVJM265]

To the original poster: I came here straight form the Navy after I retired and don't plan on going anywhere else until I retire from flying and make that final entry in my logbook with a NxxxQS as the aircraft. I've heard too many stories form guys on the 121 side of the fence to know I made the right decision.

CA1900's posts are great and he is right on the spot. (I wish that I could type as fast as he does sometimes.) Please read his parts about all the extras involved with the job here. (See also my post here:
http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?p=1451992#post1451992). If you are OK with that, then get your app in a.s.a.p.!

Best of luck to you,
265

Oh...another great thing about NJA - week before last when I was on the road sitting hot spare at LAX, my wife found out she had to have surgery on Mar 27th. Called benefits - took this week to help her out. Week off with pay (from sick days) under FMLA, and NO QUESTIONS or GRIEF other than the resquiste paperwork. Still can't get my brain around that. CP would rather have us take care of the home front than be distracted in the airplane. What was it he said at recurrent? "We are all career employees and we are all going to retire from here."

 

[ozpilot]

Sometimes its the little things ...

Last December I was halfway through a tour when my wifes grandmother passed away. Even though it was a woman I hardly knew, it obviously was a big deal for my wife. I notified the company that I needed to get home. They asked "Do you need to get home now, or can you complete the revenue leg we have you scheduled for?"

At that point, I could have just gone home but since I had ample duty after the leg to airline home I chose to complete the revenue leg.

When I blocked in there was an Ultra sitting next to my aircraft on the ramp. The company had sent them there to get me home. It was a three hour ferry and I was home by 3 in the afternoon.

Some companies understand that loyalty is a two way street. Would your regional do that for you?