CAL or UPS?????

[LARRY H. JUNIOR]

ok, its sunday.

cal or ups? which one would you go to?

how much day flying is there at ups?

 

[GogglesPisano]

These two are even more further apart than SWA and CAL. Two completely different animals. I fly a mix of pax and cargo at my current gig and -- no offense to the cargo guys -- I would much rather fly pax. Others obviously disagree strongly. Doubtless there is more job security and better pay at UPS, but I think the average pilot would enjoy the actual job more at CAL.

But, as always when this question arises, one should look inside (preferably when one first wakes up in the morning -- that's when your heart speaks loudest) for the answer, not a gang-turf message board.

 

[MD80DRVR]

Well nothing is guaranteed in this business when it comes to great pay, seniority and a pension, but UPS is about as close as you can get.

No brainer. Go to UPS.

 

[capt. megadeth]

I would much rather fly pax.

Do you like to interact with them? I am just wondering what your reasoning for this is.

There's no doubt that the hardest thing about UPS is the night flying but I would be willing to sacrifice that for better job security (if you can have that at an airline).

 

[1800 RVR]

I was called for an interview with CAL in my second week of GS at UPS. When I declined the interview, the caller was taken aback. He asked why I would turn down an interview with CAL. I thanked him for the opportunity to interview, and in the time since I applied, I had started a new job. He asked "Do you mind telling me who you work for?" I answered UPS. His reply: "Yeah, they pay very good. Good luck to you!" And that was it.

The reason for the story: if you feel the need to walk through the terminal in your uniform going to your jet, UPS is not for you. Some folks still like the idea of "prestige", that in my mind, has been long gone. If you like a FA getting your meals and coffee, then UPS is not for you. If you really don't like flying at night, then UPS is REALLY NOT for you.

If you want the best chance of a long career without any furloughs (my opinion only), then UPS will give you that chance. I know things can change quickly, but as things stand right now, and with financials to back it up, UPS is a stable gig. THE KEY THING TO REMEMBER: UPS is NOT an airline - we are a gobal transportation/logistics/trucking/etc. company that owns airplanes. This is the silver lining. We aren't dependant on just one thing: the travelling public. Just do some research on UPS.com, and it will amaze you how diversified we are as a company.

And one other thing: yeah, the night flying CAN be a buttkicker, but you can manage it well. There are some days where my butt drags, but I have had those kinds of days while flying pax, as well. If you want to work all day, then fly your shift at night, that ain't gonna work. You have to plan ahead, take naps, etc. Sometimes you have to tell your family that you need sleep. It goes with the territory.

And lastly: to each his own. I know of a newhire at UPS that left with maybe 3-4 months left on probation for SWA. I'm sure he had his reasons. Make a choice and live with it.

 

[GogglesPisano]

Call me sentimental. I got into this business because as a young kid I wanted to fly for TWA or Pan Am. The remaining legacies come closest to that job. I do like interacting with pax, gate agents, FA's. In the course of flying cargo you come into contact with 3 or 4 people/day. That's just too insular a job for me -- although I could certainly bear it for a career at UPS/Fedex.

Other pilots are less sentimental and guide their career with the use of a spreadsheet. I certainly can't fault anyone for that. If that's the case than UPS is the obvious choice here.

Different strokes.

 

[BSkin]

No doubt, UPS! But, all depends on how you and your loved ones can adjust to the backside of the clock. But, personally, I'd take that anytime over EWR!

 

[pkober]

You don't have to live in Sewark. That's like saying if you work for UPS you have to move SDF.

This is the worst place to ask for opinions on your long term career moves.

 

[Jetjockey]

I
There are some days where my butt drags, but I have had those kinds of days while flying pax, as well.

I've seen your butt walking through the terminal 1800. it's always dragging! I'm sure you look good in brown though. What's up homie?

 

[willNOTfly4free]

one should look inside (preferably when one first wakes up in the morning -- that's when your heart speaks loudest)

Now that's a deep thought!

 

[Archie Bunker]

The reason for the story: if you feel the need to walk through the terminal in your uniform going to your jet, UPS is not for you. Some folks still like the idea of "prestige", that in my mind, has been long gone. If you like a FA getting your meals and coffee, then UPS is not for you. If you really don't like flying at night, then UPS is REALLY NOT for you.

1800 hits the proverbial nail on the head.

For those of you that actually think that there is some sort of prestige associated with walking through the terminal in your uniform, or that your passengers hold you in some sort of high regard....I suggest that you stop watching the movie, "Catch me if you can," because it has obviously caused some sort of brain damage.

While jumpseating (out of uniform) on one of my final trips with Delta last year before I quit, I was standing off to the side in the jetway watching all the passengers board. Two men, approx 35-40 years old are getting ready to step onto the aircraft when one of them looks into the cockpit window and see the pilots getting ready to go. One guy turns to the other and says, "a couple of overpaid bus drivers." They both got a good laugh out of it, then boarded the aircraft. There's your prestige.

As for FAs serving you first class meals and coffee on fine china....again there's a few folks on these boards that are living in la la land. Those days were on the downswing prior to 9/11; now they're virtually non existent....at least at American Flag carriers.

I guess, "to each his own".....but if you're seriously considering the CAL vs UPS decision, and you have to contemplate the choice for more than...say....3 to 4 seconds, then you're a perfect fit for today's Pt 121 pax ops.

 

[whymeworry?]

You have to ask?

Get on airlinepilotcentral.com and figure out the pay rates. UPS contract is much better than CALs even payrates aside.

Flying at night the problem? Well, you'll do quite a bit of long-haul at night on CAL as well.

 

[BSkin]

You don't have to live in Sewark. That's like saying if you work for UPS you have to move SDF.

This is the worst place to ask for opinions on your long term career moves.

Wasn't talking about living in "Sewark", just flying in there is painful enough!

 

[SOVT]

"As for FAs serving you first class meals and coffee on fine china....again there's a few folks on these boards that are living in la la land. Those days were on the downswing prior to 9/11; now they're virtually non existent....at least at American Flag carriers."

Actually... Last Thursday I had a rather lovely Flight Attendant serve me a steak with a rubbed peppercorn glaze, a garden salad and three kinds of bread for dinner. Not served on china but with real silverware and a porcelain plate. For desert we had a choice of a Sunday with your favorite topping or handmade chocolates and of couse we had a choice of non-alcoholic beverages. Pretty much the same experience for the trip home.

The layover dinner was quite nice as well, the girls make pretty great dinner companions.

In case your interested, this has been pretty much my standard trip experience here at CO.

I'm here 18 months, blockholder on the 756, 16 days off per month. I fly one trip a week; day one I have breakfast with the family then leave for the airport around noon, day three home in time for dinner. By the way I have a summer vacation this year.

The pay might not be the best in the industry but the QOL is pretty good here. Fly boxes if you wish but the pax side of the house can be pretty nice, even post 9-11.

 

[Non Union]

"As for FAs serving you first class meals and coffee on fine china....again there's a few folks on these boards that are living in la la land. Those days were on the downswing prior to 9/11; now they're virtually non existent....at least at American Flag carriers."

Actually... Last Thursday I had a rather lovely Flight Attendant serve me a steak with a rubbed peppercorn glaze, a garden salad and three kinds of bread for dinner. Not served on china but with real silverware and a porcelain plate. For desert we had a choice of a Sunday with your favorite topping or handmade chocolates and of couse we had a choice of non-alcoholic beverages. Pretty much the same experience for the trip home.

The layover dinner was quite nice as well, the girls make pretty great dinner companions.

In case your interested, this has been pretty much my standard trip experience here at CO.

I'm here 18 months, blockholder on the 756, 16 days off per month. I fly one trip a week; day one I have breakfast with the family then leave for the airport around noon, day three home in time for dinner. By the way I have a summer vacation this year.

The pay might not be the best in the industry but the QOL is pretty good here. Fly boxes if you wish but the pax side of the house can be pretty nice, even post 9-11.

That is some of the gayest sh!te that I've ever read. Rather lovely? Quite nice? I'm about to throw up in my mouth, a little.

 

[GogglesPisano]

Non-union: Are you the newest flightinfo flame-baiter? Sounds like they need to up the membership fee again.

 

[1800 RVR]

I've seen your butt walking through the terminal 1800. it's always dragging! I'm sure you look good in brown though. What's up homie?

My butt is no longer in chocolate brown, but dark chocolate brown! Things are good, can't complain - no one would listen anyway! How are things wit' you, man? You doin' the IAH thing yet?

 

[1800 RVR]

"As for FAs serving you first class meals and coffee on fine china....again there's a few folks on these boards that are living in la la land. Those days were on the downswing prior to 9/11; now they're virtually non existent....at least at American Flag carriers."

Actually... Last Thursday I had a rather lovely Flight Attendant serve me a steak with a rubbed peppercorn glaze, a garden salad and three kinds of bread for dinner. Not served on china but with real silverware and a porcelain plate. For desert we had a choice of a Sunday with your favorite topping or handmade chocolates and of couse we had a choice of non-alcoholic beverages. Pretty much the same experience for the trip home.

The layover dinner was quite nice as well, the girls make pretty great dinner companions.

In case your interested, this has been pretty much my standard trip experience here at CO.

I'm here 18 months, blockholder on the 756, 16 days off per month. I fly one trip a week; day one I have breakfast with the family then leave for the airport around noon, day three home in time for dinner. By the way I have a summer vacation this year.

The pay might not be the best in the industry but the QOL is pretty good here. Fly boxes if you wish but the pax side of the house can be pretty nice, even post 9-11.

I'm glad to hear that there is still some civility in this job of ours. And I'm glad that you are happy. That is what this job is all about - having fun while flying. However, 3 furloughs in 5 years on the pax side was enough for me. I'll take my chances here. Good luck to you!

 

[psysicx]

Only problem with Cal is there IAH base has limited INTL destinations. Unless you like EWR.

 

[Networ-King]

A furloughed delta buddy went to continental and after 7 month, he hated it so bad that he went back on a recall to a bankrupt airline making more money with better schedules and pay. I couldn't believe it either, but he said that it was bad enough to leave. As for the people saying they don't like flying at night, and yet want to fly for delta, american, usair, jetblue, continental, and airtran you might want to rethink your options. I barely fly at night and Im on my third year. You have to suck it up once in a while and get crapped on, but thats everywhere. Lets see..... A plan, B plan and a second year pay that you can make about 110K without breaking a sweat or working for CAL? And... bases in the east coast, west coast, Louisville and ANC......HHHMMM You're right..... if you have to think about it then you belong at CAL. Also... don't forget about "Skybus" and Virgin America and the likes of these new cut throat companies starting up on a regular basis. They are never going to stop popping up... Good luck with your choice and good luck.....

 

[Powda5]

Just my 2 cents at CO... I like it now that I'm in IAH.

I was 100% going back to my furloughed carrier after I was hired and based in EWR. I commute, and that's the main reason. I suggest if you commute, do not not not get based in EWR. Trips start early, end late, EWR delays mess with your commute both ways.

IAH hardly gets a delay. 737 flying there is great--my opinion-I love Central and South America. I did not care for EWR flying as much, although MOST people said EWR flying was better. Not for me. Trips start late, end early to late afternoon. I have not gotten one hotel in 2 months.

I'm flying with great CAs--had a couple weird ones on RSV in EWR, but once a lineholder (3 months), was fine.

Upgrade is in what--a year? But I ain't goin to EWR to do that.

737 doesn't get handmade chocolate...sorry, but the crews are nice, the company accomodated me when a friend went in the hospital with no questions asked-not even family. I got sick 3 times in 2 months, again no questions asked.

Easy pass travel, too and you can designate a buddy along with parents for privileges. It's good here. Merger rumors are dependent on what other carriers do. CO would rather go it alone. Hope it helps....

 

[av8instyle]

You have to ask?

Get on airlinepilotcentral.com and figure out the pay rates. UPS contract is much better than CALs even payrates aside.

Flying at night the problem? Well, you'll do quite a bit of long-haul at night on CAL as well.

Regarding the APC comment, I made more at Alaska year four than my year four year peers at UPS. Not saying one is better than the other. My point is that contracts change yearly and I don't personally think current pay rates are the way to decide the rest of your career...aka DAL/UAL etc. I personally don't think CAL or UPS are going anywhere soon and I would make the decision based on the ability to live close to domicile and get away from furlough land ASAP. After that it's what kind of flying do I want to do...because you may be doing that flying for a LOOOOONG time...(65).

I'd take either job, feel blessed to get either, and hope for the best. Oddly enough, when I got into the business not too long ago both of those companies were places you threw an app into but hoped you got something better. Now they are very desirable places to work.

I think the overriding theme is job security, and although CAL is pax, I don't think you could go wrong either way.

 

[wahoo250]

The glamour of walking through a terminal with your uniform on is like the glamour or sitting down at a strip joint with a wad of one's in your hand. It's your own fantasy.

 

[whymeworry?]

Regarding the APC comment, I made more at Alaska year four than my year four year peers at UPS. Not saying one is better than the other. My point is that contracts change yearly and I don't personally think current pay rates are the way to decide the rest of your career...aka DAL/UAL etc. I personally don't think CAL or UPS are going anywhere soon and I would make the decision based on the ability to live close to domicile and get away from furlough land ASAP. After that it's what kind of flying do I want to do...because you may be doing that flying for a LOOOOONG time...(65).

I'd take either job, feel blessed to get either, and hope for the best. Oddly enough, when I got into the business not too long ago both of those companies were places you threw an app into but hoped you got something better. Now they are very desirable places to work.



I think the overriding theme is job security, and although CAL is pax, I don't think you could go wrong either way.

Don't get me wrong. CAL is a great place to be. It's really all about what floats your boat in terms of pax vs. cargo and in terms of base selections.

My comments about the contract comparison between the two carriers... of course things change but CAL has a long uphill battle to get to where UPS is, while UPS can merely build from here. That is something very easy to accomplish when your company is making $2.5 billion a year in pure profit. Contract issues are a gamble with resepect to the long term career for sure but certainly not something to ignore. You comparison of AK vs. UPS are irrelevant at this point since they now have a new contract and the pay has been significantly enhanced.

I really enjoy CAL, its a great company run by an intelligent and progressive mangement team. But the B-scale wages (which take 5-6 years to get past) that the union negotiated for us are abysmal. And the new PBS system (which the union also negotiated for us) has hampered everyones chance to make a little extra money. Once you get past the 5-6 year scale the pay is not bad at all.

 

[Ex737Driver]

That is some of the gayest sh!te that I've ever read. Rather lovely? Quite nice? I'm about to throw up in my mouth, a little.

I thought when a CEO talked, all that came out was throw up. Kinda like how you know a lawyer is lying, his lips are moving.

 

[av8instyle]

You comparison of AK vs. UPS are irrelevant at this point since they now have a new contract and the pay has been significantly enhanced.

I disagree. I think it's very relevant. The point I was trying to make is that choosing a major based highly on money is not the wisest move. Three years ago based on money Alaska would have been a better option than UPS. Do you smell what I'm stepping in?

 

[pkober]

A furloughed delta buddy went to continental and after 7 month, he hated it so bad that he went back on a recall to a bankrupt airline making more money with better schedules and pay. I couldn't believe it either, but he said that it was bad enough to leave. As for the people saying they don't like flying at night, and yet want to fly for delta, american, usair, jetblue, continental, and airtran you might want to rethink your options. I barely fly at night and Im on my third year. You have to suck it up once in a while and get crapped on, but thats everywhere. Lets see..... A plan, B plan and a second year pay that you can make about 110K without breaking a sweat or working for CAL? And... bases in the east coast, west coast, Louisville and ANC......HHHMMM You're right..... if you have to think about it then you belong at CAL. Also... don't forget about "Skybus" and Virgin America and the likes of these new cut throat companies starting up on a regular basis. They are never going to stop popping up... Good luck with your choice and good luck.....

I love it when pilots assume that were they work will always be secure. All it takes is one merger on the losing end and your life will change dramatically.

UPS is a great company but in ten years who knows. Just like any other flying job, you just don't know. Just look at all the UAL, DAL and AA guys thinking nothing could happen there in the 90's.

Sit down with your family and make a decision that fits best for you and don't let some one of flightinfo make that decision for you.

 

[capt. megadeth]

UPS is a great company but in ten years who knows. Just like any other flying job, you just don't know. Just look at all the UAL, DAL and AA guys thinking nothing could happen there in the 90's.

.

I agree. I am probably more paranoid than most but I wouldn't be surprised if we have our own problems down the road.

 

[Networ-King]

I love it when pilots assume that were they work will always be secure. All it takes is one merger on the losing end and your life will change dramatically.

UPS is a great company but in ten years who knows. Just like any other flying job, you just don't know. Just look at all the UAL, DAL and AA guys thinking nothing could happen there in the 90's.

Sit down with your family and make a decision that fits best for you and don't let some one of flightinfo make that decision for you.

You're absolutely right with your comments.... I am an X DAL guy and at the time it was the right move to make. And right now being dealt a hand that has CAL in it or UPS, I would play the UPS card. I never said this was the best place in the world, All I said is that this is one of the most secure jobs....eerrrr careers out there. SWA was not the place to be either 5 years ago and neither was UPS, but with the industry changed forever..... having a secure career is worth more than the illusion of having status walking through a terminal in a pilots uniform working for a company that works you to death and barely making any money.

As for the AK comparison....... its all about company profitability in order to keep your contract moving in the right direction and not a concessionary contract. Heres a blurb about Alaska.... tell me what card you'd play? nuff said......................



Alaska Air Group Reports 2006 Full Year And Fourth Quarter Results

1/25/2007 5:00 a.m.

SEATTLE — Alaska Air Group, Inc. (NYSE:ALK) today reported a full year net loss of $52.6 million, or $1.39 per share, compared to a net loss of $5.9 million, or $0.01 per diluted share, in 2005.

 

[pkober]

you are correct