Best modern trainer?

[CelticCitation]

Looking to replace our fleet of 25 year old C-172s with more modern, or at least newer aircraft. What aircraft would those of you in the flight training world recommend? Mostly primary instruction and instrument ratings. Based at nearly 5000 msl airport.

 

[Medicryan]

Piper!!!

 

[minitour]

The new DA40s coming out have lots of neat stuff...G1000, 195 ponies, improved winglets.

Cirrus are fun, although I've got no SR22 time...just SR20...still fun.

Skylane?

I don't know what you're trying to upgrade...is it just an avionics upgrade you want or......speed? Range? Useful Load?

If you just want new paint and avionics and interior, go with the 172SP...G1000, leather, bla bla bla. Good airplane and has been for a while.

If you want something that'll git on ya...I'd go with Diamond. Maybe stick your private students in the DA20 (now spin approved) 2-seaters that burn around 6GPH (152 burns) at 120 knots. That's no joke on 120 knots...I flew back from London to the states along side one, he was pulled back quite a bit and I was wide open (172) and...it wasn't even close when he pushed the RPM up to the same setting.

Toss your instrument students into a DA40 w/ the G1000.....

That would probably be my personal preference...in fact, if we can get the funds secured we're going all Diamond to include a twinstar or two.

If you have any questions on them, drop me a PM...I've got plenty of diamond time and can probably get 'em at a good price for you as I know the dealer fairly well.

-mini

-

 

[jcpilot]

I agree with the guy who recommended Diamond.

My flight school at Utah State University just replaced their 152s and 172s with DA-40s. Pretty sweet airplanes; G1000, TIS, XM Weather, etc... We also replaced our 50 year old Beech Travelairs with Twin Stars. Beware, though. According to our local FSDO, the Twin Star doesn't qualify as complex, due to the ECU controlling prop pitch. This may change in the future, though. So, we're keeping our Piper Arrows for now for commercial students.

 

[paulsalem]

I'd stay away from the 172R and SP, the interiors are built like crap, plus there are some known engine stumbling issues that remain uncorrected.

Please don't go with glass/EFIS instruments.

 

[CelticCitation]

Thanks for the replys. See Katanas everywhere, and figured there must be a reason. Anyone have reliability issues, support etc.? What are the gotchas to watch for with the diamonds?

I am planning on having them bring a demo after the AOPA convention, but until then, how does a DA-20 fit two larger pilots? One of our CFIs is 6'4", another 270 lbs. Could we put both of them in the same airplane?

 

[Pilot Doc]

Have you considered any of the LSAs? $70K-100K/plane. I'm not sure if any are approved for IFR but they can certainly be outfitted for instrument training. They generally burn 4GPH as well.

The Flight Design CT, which seems to be leading the market now, has a 670 lb useful load. With 20 gallons on board (almost 5 hours fuel) that gives you room for a 270 lb instructor and up to 280 lb of student.

 

[Lazy8]

The LSA's are going to be the way to go for Private training. Cessna's will probably go into production next year and it will be less than $100k brand new. The panel is slated to be LCD displays that show a six-pack. You won't be able to do instrument flying in them, but I think they're going to be awesome for Private training. I would imagine the rental rate would be around $70-$80/hour, which is exactly what this industry needs again - more affordable flight training in new aircraft.

I've been flying 172SP's and R's for 4 years and I've never had an "engine stumbling" problem that paulsalem mentioned. IO-360's aren't the smoothest running engines in the world, but they're very reliable. The interiors are no better or worse than new Pipers or Diamonds. They all have their quirks. For me, I don't think there has ever been a better training aircraft out there than the C152 and C172. They're built tough as nails, they're easy to fly, and no other GA aircraft manufacturer comes close the Cessna's support network.

I've got quite a bit of time in a DA20-C1 Eclipse too. They're good airplanes, but they don't seem to hold up as well in the training environment. Also, if you're in an area where it gets really cold, they accumulate frost on the wings much faster than aluminum planes. I don't know the reason for this. It's not a comfortable airplane for larger people and the CG range is quite narrow. It's a good plane, but it's not something I would want to fill up a flight-line with. It's more of a weekend warrior aircraft.

g

 

[CelticCitation]

LSA's

LSA's are probably another good idea. Anybody talked to an insurance company about rates for Light Sport rates? I wonder if they are comparable to traditional instruction activities?

 

[Pilot Doc]

LSA's are probably another good idea. Anybody talked to an insurance company about rates for Light Sport rates? I wonder if they are comparable to traditional instruction activities?

talk to www.stcharlesflyingsvs.com

They're a busy 141 school that has had 2 LSA for 18 months.

 

[ParrotheadGTI]

diamonds are amazing aircraft.. so easy to fly..

 

[LearLove]

whats wrong with older 172's or Pipers? Take care of them - wash/wax and clean inside after lesson and theres nothig else to do except chage the oil. Most flight schools, CFI and their students just don't respect the aircraft thus they get run down and everyone wants to replace what doesn't need to be replaced.

The only advantage of newer is the glass but we really don't need this. Just a standard 6 pack and some pilotage skills will do fine for a PVT guy which he she can back up with a GPS after they learn the basics.

 

[Goose Egg]

I have a few hours in the DA-20 (like 30-ish... got my IFR rating) and I was really quite impressed. Not only do they sip fuel and go fast, but they also soar up to 13,999' MSL with the power at idle with some good lift.

I've got a few more hours (like 800-ish) in the C-172R, and it's a very good airplane. I've got no complaints.

-Goose

 

[LearLove]

nice pic goose, cross rules - of all the racing I did as a junior I miss the track (t-town) and cross the most.

 

[CelticCitation]

I agree that from a training perspective, there is nothing wrong with older airplanes, and in fact, some of the skills of operating them will be lost, but from a business perspective, we're losing business to the big schools, who operate newer equipment. Also, operating costs of older aircraft make it difficult to ever upgrade them, as it does very little to raise their value, yet they still cost a bunch to maintain.