XJ Avro to fly point-to-point... what the hell?

[DoinTime]

Northwest to Fly Grand Rapids - Washington D.C. Nonstop

Thursday February 10, 11:00 am ET


GRAND RAPIDS, Mich., Feb. 10 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- Northwest Airlines (Nasdaq: NWAC - News) today announced that it will begin offering the only daily nonstop service between Grand Rapids' Gerald R. Ford International Airport and Ronald Reagan Washington National Airport, beginning May 2, 2005.

The new flight will be operated by Northwest Airlink partner Mesaba Airlines with a 69-seat Avro RJ85 regional jet (ARJ), with 16 seats in first class and 53 seats in coach class.


Huh?!? I thought that the NWA pilots contract specifically said no point-to-point flying in any jet of 50 seats or more. (Hence why 9E flew Lansing to DC in the 44-seater.)

What am I missing???


.

The restrictions on point to point service only apply to "regional jets" as defined by the NW PWA (45-55 seat turbojet aircraft with a max gross weight of less than 70,000 lbs). There have never been any restrictions on 44-seat CRJ's or RJ-85's.

 

[Dodge]

If Mesaba ever were to grow (expand routes, add hulls, hire employees) then yes, maybe I would be concerned. But, since we have not received an aircraft since 2000 (9E's Saabs don't count because we retired a greater # of our own) and we have 100 less pilots than we did then, I ain't too worried.

What I am worried about is the future of the Avro if NW and their pilots agree to operate the 70 seaters. Bye-bye Avro and hello furloughs to all.

 

[Spinn555]

What I am worried about is the future of the Avro if NW and their pilots agree to operate the 70 seaters. Bye-bye Avro and hello furloughs to all.

Doesn't NW and their pilots already have the ability to operate 70 seaters? If the scope is written in new negotiations that only allows NWA pilots to fly 70-seaters, how is that different from the current scope?

 

[Dodge]

Yes they do. But as you can see, there are no NW 70 seat planes anywhere. IF they do show up and IF NW can con their pilots, FA's, rampies, mechanics, etc..to work on those planes for regional wages........there would be no need for a 69 seat aircraft with four engines burning 5000 lbs of gas per hour going 100 knots slower than every other jet. Thus, the hypothetical furloughs.

 

[Ace McCoy]

I'm not sure what routes you're taking. We have never done any of those legs. I say more power to you. More flying is good for everyone. We start doing DSM to Washington shortly. Who would have every thought? Now if we could get some good work rules/rigs, that would be sweet!!

Ahhh it was just a tongue in cheek remark about how 95% of the newly announced routes in the past 2 years have been for Crjs and Pinnacle. No animosity here because we pilots don't make those decisions.

That also goes for worrying about future mainline jobs. I am totally against us and pinnacle doing these mainline routes but what can I do about it? It is up to NWA management to assign the flying and it's up to NWA pilots to stop management from giving them away. Though the latest contract concessions at NWA show that their pilots (at least a majority of them) are not interested in stopping the outsourcing.

Cest la vie

 

[smokey999]

There is no such thing as a future maniline job anymore.

You're a complete moron, why don't you look into your crystal ball and tell me who's going to win the super bowl in 2010. At least that way I can lay down a few bets to supplement my income, since there will be "no maniline jobs anymore".
Just because it's raining today doesn't mean it's going to be raining tomorrow.

 

[DoinTime]

That also goes for worrying about future mainline jobs. I am totally against us and pinnacle doing these mainline routes but what can I do about it? It is up to NWA management to assign the flying and it's up to NWA pilots to stop management from giving them away. Though the latest contract concessions at NWA show that their pilots (at least a majority of them) are not interested in stopping the outsourcing.

Cest la vie

There is nothing about GRR-DCA that says "mainline" flight. I've been operating (on a heavy day) 25% load factors on a 44 seat jet out of both IND and MKE to some of these large population centers over the past few months and I wouldn't expect the GRR flights to be any different. There is no way mainline could support flying like this with a 100 seat DC-9. If there is money to made on this route, thats great, but if mainline can't provide the cost structure to make it happen they have to turn to Airlink.

 

[flagshipper]

Just to second what dointime said the past few months I have done mostly IND flying and a few times mainline guys have said stuff in regards to that being mainline flying but the largest load i think i have ever carried out of IND to DCA is 12 and to BOS is 23 and PHL is 11. All this IND flying is not about loads. It is about ridding NW of competition. We have done LAN-IAD for a long time now with the loads averaging well below 40% but NW does not care because they are not gonna let, in this case, INDY creep in on Michigan a state they cover very well. I may not like it but i fly where I am told to.

 

[Juan Trippe]

I am so glad to have moved away from the entire twisted NWA-Mesaba-Pinnacle-ALPA web that has been spun! I cannot believe the headache that that combination of parties creates at times! Who can management get pis**d-off at who next? It felt like a free-for-all cage match at times! All I can say is good luck, fly safe, and most importantly ... don't ever forget about you and your family's "quality of life". Because the big picture in life is much more important than that darn flying job. And, my final note ..... All of you "Red-tail'ers" ..... TRY to be nice to each other! You're all in the same kind of game ... all looking for a similar end result. So, don't play that high-and-mighty crud on each other. The feeder guys want to be up where the mainline guys are, and the mainline guys cannot survive without the help of what the feeders are doing. Just treat each other with a little respect ... that's all i'm asking. Because I didn't see much of it while I was around the "Red-tail" halls.
See ya around!

 

[Propsync]

Good Luck on those GRR-DCA and DSM-DCA. Skyway used to do GRR-DCA, my guess is we did 50% load factor at the very best, on a 32 seat jet nonetheless. I forsee many empty seats on the Avro. It was a great overnight for us and I really miss it. Midwest did the DSM-DCA deal for a few years, I think they got the slots from Access Air when they folded after a few months. Another great waste of utilization. The best waste was MCI-IAD in a nine. They would come in the same time as us, with fewer people on the nine than our 328. Yikes. And Dulles was a waste of our time, too.