West Air and SKYW?

[Truckdriver]

Hey is there anyone out there that can fill me in on what went down when SkyWest purchased West Air. (I think that is who it was???). I know that they purchased them to get the west coast United Express operation. What did they do with the employees of West Air? Were they integrated into the SkyWest workgroup? I would like to hear the story from someone who was at West Air and also someone who was at SkyWest to get both sides of the story. The reason I ask is SkyWest is in the market for more acquisitions and the was the West Air employees were treated will probably be an indication of how employees of any mergers in the future will be treated. I've heard nasty rumors and I wanted to get a straight answer from people who know. Any info would be great.

 

[trip]

SKYW never purchased Westair, Westair was shutdown when they (mesa) lost the UAL contract. Most if not all Westies were given interviews at SKYW. I know the pilots of Westair had an interview if they wanted one. I was one of them! No merger, no seniority, start all over again. SKYW did end up buying some A/C and other property from Westair after they shutdown.

 

[strega7]

To briefly set the record straight, SkyWest did not purchase WestAir. Mesa purchased WestAir Airlines from WestAir Industries in '94 or '95. Then the Rizzley owned WestAir lost the west coast UEX contract. The contract was awarded to SkyWest Airlines. Since UEX was the only thing WestAir did, it closed shop when SkyWest started. SkyWest picked up the leases on a few of the E120s that WestAir/Mesa had used (250YV, 251YV, etc.) As far as personel, SkyWest offered employment opportunites to some former WestAir people much the same as we had done in recent times (UAL people in PSP, MRY, SBA,- ACA folks and even Air Wiskey people). Also I believe we hired about 70 former WestAir pilots, some of whom received their DOH for the class date even though they didn't attend. The rate at which pilots were leaving WestAir was such that the airline would have folded before the switch over if SkyWest (and other carriers) had plucked everyone out. These few pilots got their "earlier" DOH for sticking with WestAir until the end.


Fly Safe.

 

[freighterfreek]

It never happened. I'm pretty sure that all of this took place in the mid 1990s: Mesa bought WestAir. Mesa screwed up the old WestAir operation (more) on the west coast and lost the UEX contract. SKYW started the UEX feed afterwards on their own. The east coast (IAD) WestAir UEX feed went to Air Wisconson and eventually ACAI. I'm sure that others know the details.

the Freek

 

[freighterfreek]

strega7 wins, good job.

 

[Truckdriver]

So basically Mesa stepped in and screwed up the operation and they lost the UEX contract? Once Mesa had screwed it up then SKYW stepped in and said they would pick up the contract and buy some of WestAir's assets. The WestAir employee's who were given interviews were then hired at SKYW at the bottom of the seniority list. I guess that SKYW did not interview the WestAir pilots starting at the top of their list. So a junior WestAir pilot could have been hired at SKYW and been senior to a pilot who was senior to them at WestAir. That is basically the story I heard except that I was told SkyWest purchased WestAir. I'm glad I got the story straight because that makes a big difference.


On another note, SkyWest didn't have anything to do with WestAir losing the contract did they? Like underbidding them to look more cost attractive than WestAir did?

 

[Ace McCoy]

On another note, SkyWest didn't have anything to do with WestAir losing the contract did they? Like underbidding them to look more cost attractive than WestAir did?

That's funny...how can someone underbid mesa?

Also, a lot of West Air guys got interviews with and were hired by United because they were former West Air guys.

 

[CesnaCaptn]

So, what happend to the pilots when SkyWest bought sunair?

 

[Truckdriver]

Yea, what about Sunair? I haven't heard that one yet. Let me guess, SKYW bought some assets then hired the employee's at the bottom of the list. When CAL went looking for turbo-prop flying out of IAH, MESA was in on the bidding for the first route, IAH-VCT. Look who is flying turbo-props in IAH. Did SKYW underbid MESA or did CAL pay a higher price for SKYW because they are non-union?? I heard they underbid MESA.

On a sidenote, if United is looking for 70 seat jets, SKYW could probably underbid MESA because the pilots at SKYW will fly a 70 seat jet for the SAME RATE they will fly a 50 seat jet. Heck, they will even fly a 99 seat jet for the same price as a 50 seat jet. This I don't quite understand. I have yet to hear a good explanation for why the pilots agreed to fly for those rates. I guess they don't have much of a choice since they are non-union. And people bash the MESA guys for whoring the industry. Where are the SKYW bashers? They are going to kill everyone who is flying 70-90 seat jets. Johnny O is sitting in his office kicking himself in the a$$ because he is paying his guys more to fly the 700 and the SKYW guys are doing it for the same price as the 50 seat jet.

 

[strega7]

Have you looked at the pay rates? Look at the SkyWest 50/70 seat rate and then Mesa 70 seat rate. I think Johnny O is quite happy.

 

[Truckdriver]

Yep, sure have.


Right now MESA flies the 700 for 61.89 for a 5 year guy and the 900 for 66.58 for a 5th year guy. At SKYW they fly the 700 for 63.20 and would fly the 900 for 63.20. SKYW flies the 700 for about 2% more than MESA and would fly the 900 for about 5% less than MESA. So you are right, Johnny O is happy about what he has got for now with the 700. SKYW will fly a 90 seat jet for LESS than MESA and they would fly a 737 for LESS than MESA. I beleive the MEC at MESA told Johnny O that he could take a hike until he showed them industry average pay for aircraft in the size range of 737's. Wait until SKYW rolls a 159 seat jet on property and they pay around $100/hr for captains when the industry average pay for a large narrowbody is around $160/hr. Someone give me a good explanation on why SKYW has these low pay rates for larger aircraft and I won't be too concerned here. I just haven't heard a straight answer yet. Infact, I hear a different answer from everyone I ask.

 

[boeing76]

Johnny O is sitting in his office kicking himself in the a$$ because he is paying his guys more to fly the 700 and the SKYW guys are doing it for the same price as the 50 seat jet

.

Why should a pilot get paid more for flying an aircraft with 70 seats? All it is, is differences training. Now if it was a 50 seat RJ to a 120 seat B717, then sure. No argument here. But be realistic. The attitude that you should be paid more just because it has 20 more seats is illogical. If that were the case, I should have been paid 7 times what I was getting for dispatching DC-10's than the RJs I dispatch now. And that was far from differences training.

 

[strega7]

Or better yet, UPS only pays for seat and longevity. That's right, a 5 year DC-8 Captain and a 5 year 747 Captain are paid at the same rate! I know, it's hard to imagine there's more than one way to pay a pilot.

 

[Truckdriver]

I know there is more than one way to pay a pilot, but when every passenger carrier in the industry pays more to fly larger airplanes and then SKYW steps in and pays the same to fly larger airplanes something is not right. Even the MESA guys get that point. Strega7 I would guess you fly for SKYW. Please explain to me why you think it is fair to fly a 99 seat jet for the same pay as a 50 seat jet.

 

[strega7]

Please explain to me why you think it is fair to fly a 99 seat jet for the same pay as a 50 seat jet.

You see the beauty of America is that I do not have to explain anything to you. If you'd like you can research this topic yourself as it has already been discussed at length here on this website. I will say this pilot group did what it did because at the time it was thought to be the lesser of two evils. And, as you can see, we do not operate any 99 seats nor will we during the duration of the pay agreement. So yes, on paper there exists the potential to pay someone in a 99 seater at the 50 seat rate. However, if we get some 99 seaters, ALOT will have gone bad and it is survival mode for this company. Companies and employee groups (waiting on Delta) will do amazing things to get through tough times and yes that includes changing the way we are compensated. Waiting until you have no choice is just that, a choice. Some groups are proactive, others not. So if you need another airline to be mad at, look at Independance. I believe all pilots going to the Bus are going to be paid at the first (then second, third, until year 5) year rate. So even though a 12 year ACA RJ guy is going to the Airbus, he'll only get the 1st year pay rate. Good? Bad? I think it's what ever they need to survive and thats OK with me.

 

[learob]

truckdriver

Not everybody pays more for larger airplanes AWA does not, same pay for a 737-200 or a 757, or Southwest same pay for a 737-100 or a 737-700, and I beleve Alaska does to 737-100 or a 737-400. Also Skywest does not have any 900 or 737 and as far as I know has no plains to get any.

For many years Skywest was among the top 2 or 3 paying companies on a per hour rate scale but usually number 1 on total compensation when you count stock options and profit sharing. Their contract has better work rules and overtime benifits than some majors.

As I understand it, (and current SW guys please jump in if I am wrong), a year or so ago the company came to SWAPA and told them that UAL was hiting them hard for cost savings until they got out of chap 11. The pilot group then took a vote on a pay freeze and incorporating the 700 at the 200 rates, the vote pased because unlike most airlines Skywest pilots wanted to do the right thing and help the company. This was a win win as I see it, The company then got 700's and in a year or so it will be pay back time for the pilots, so we will see if the company makes it right. But I have no reason to doubt that they wont because of the way I was treated during my 5 years there.

 

[Mookie]

LearRob,

That sure is the hope that everyone is counting on. we'll see in December when it's time to man-up whether or not it will happen. things have changed alot here even since i've gotten here. we're getting very big, very fast, and while we have enjoyed the benefits of the expansion, the mgmt/pilot interaction isn't as "warm and fuzzy" as it was even a few years ago. i'm optimistic though. this is still a great place to be with awesome people to work with and to work for day in and day out.

as far as buying another company, and how an integration would work, i asked Jerry Atkins, president that same question during a Q and A in front of a recurrent and newhire class, and he said "we don't buy airlines, we buy assets." take that for what its worth.

Mookie

 

[Truckdriver]

Learob and Strega7, I'll give you credit for your answers. I know SKYW has a very proactive management group because Jerry is running a family built company and he actually cares about it unlike some CEO's of the day. I don't have any reason to doubt that in the future Jerry will "pay back" the pilots for flying the 700 for 200 rates. But, the industry average pay on 70 and 90 seat jets will now be lower because of the rates SKYW has on paper. It doesn't matter that you are not flying them. SKYW hurt every other company that flies 70 and 90 seat jets in this industry by putting those rates on paper. What if SKYW orders 190's and puts a 5 year CA in them for $63/hr. Do you think JBLU will feel good about paying their 190 captains more than that??? You have to admit that what SKYW has done on paper will not help others in the industry. The SKYW pilot group has ridden the back of unionized groups to get what they have got and now they are lowering the bar for those who fought for what they deserved. Proactive management at SKYW, maybe. Proactive pilot goup at SKYW, no way!!

 

[strega7]

The SKYW pilot group has ridden the back of unionized groups to get what they have got and now they are lowering the bar for those who fought for what they deserved.

And I thought this was going to be a real discussion. Are you going to include JetBlue in this "unionized/non-unionized" statement?

 

[Truckdriver]

Yep, you bow out when the truth is told. Just what I thought. I won't include JBLU until the pilots vote down a union 3 times. Most startups begin with no union. The real men and women in this industry understand what unity as a profession means. Talk to any pilot at any one of the legacy carriers and they will be on my side (Other than about 2000 guys at CAL, but that is a whole different subject).