Visual Profile

[JD2003]

Hey Guys/Gals...I am new to a jet and have been on the line for about five months now and I have a question for you all.

If you get cleared for a visual (base leg and close in to the marker) and you are high and not fully configured is it best to continue down the visual slope with thrust at idle until you reach final flap retraction speed (slowly) or is it better to raise the nose and lose speed (quickly) to get the final segment of flaps in?

In the first scenario you run the risk of not getting configured by the prescribed altitude (500'AGL for visuals) and in the second scenario you run the risk of getting configured but then being even higher on the slope.

With speed assignments given to us by ATC, it is not always possible to get fully configured early due to limitations so my question is when you are handed a scenario such as this one what is the best/most safe course of action?

Thanks!

Newbie

 

[PCL_128]

There really isn't a right or wrong answer, but I've always thought it to be sloppy technique to pitch up to get slowed down to configure. In the CRJ you can get configured on the slope relatively easily, even if just a few miles from the runway. I'm not sure how the ERJ is, but it can't be that much harder. It really comes down to your comfort level. Since you're new to the plane it might be best to pitch up to slow down quicker. As you gain more experience in the plane you should become more comfortable in configuring while on slope.

 

[Nindiri]

I would raise the nose and configure. It will come down a lot quicker with the flaps down and you should have no problem.

 

[five-alive]

If you are only a little high, use #1. If you are very high and desperate, pitch up and slow down to put in full flaps....you would not believe how quickly you can drop from the sky, CRJ or ERJ.

 

[JustShy]

I guess you're all trained to think flaps first, but thinking outside the box:

And the reason for not dropping the gear first is....

???

 

[JD2003]

Hey...thanks for all the responses. I would agree that there is no right or wrong answer and I hate gray areas like this in my flying.

I had been perfectly comfortable thinking slope first with thrust idle and the speed will bleed back to final flap speed in plenty of time to be within stabilized approach criteria. This has worked for me in the past.

Lately I have flown with some captains that don't like this and want to see me get the nose up to slow down. Some captains would rather see me pitch down with thrust idle and slowly bleed off the speed. I would guess that if you are anywhere outside the marker this gives plenty of time to get last segment of flaps in and N1%'s on target for a stabilized Vref and deck angle.

Very little (almost 0) time is spent on this in training so I really appreciate all who responded and captains who have showed me different way's to skin this cat.

thanks again,

newbie

 

[HowlinMadMurdoc]

All depends on the airplane. In the DoJet, if we get the just-abeam-the-numbers "slam-dunk" visual, short of doing aggressive S-turns or a couple of 360's on final, the way it'll work is to nose-up and slow down, then drop everything on speed.

That method works everytime time. And, with all due respect to PCL_128, it's not a sloppy method, if done properly. I'd rather handle a slam-dunk in this manner than doing S-turns or 360's. Passengers are more likely to wonder if it's the latter method.

Those of us MKE-based are all too familiar with the "yank-and-bank", "slam-dunk" visuals...gotta love MKE ATC sometimes...

HMM

 

[PCL_128]

And, with all due respect to PCL_128, it's not a sloppy method, if done properly. I'd rather handle a slam-dunk in this manner than doing S-turns or 360's. Passengers are more likely to wonder if it's the latter method.

"If done properly" is the key here. Very few captains I've flown with do this properly. They usually pitch up quite a bit, ask for Flaps 20 (which creates a ridiculous pitch moment in the CRJ), and then nose over rather abruptly. Personally, I try to do things smoothly for the pax. I just think keeping it on the slope will provide the smoothest ride for everyone, but it is certainly possible to use the other method and still be smooth. I just haven't seen too many people do it smoothly.

 

[Paul R. Smith]

I guess you're all trained to think flaps first, but thinking outside the box:

And the reason for not dropping the gear first is....

???

Mostly noise I would think...wadd you think?

 

[Truckdriver]

If your high and fast in the ERJ you better pitch up and slow unless it is an XR. Some of the LRJ's just don't slow down very well. If your just high you shoudl be fine, but if your also fast you better pitch up.