US President will now ride in a Rolls-Royce, not a Cadillac

[EagleRJ]

It's only a contract for 23 aircraft, but our national pride and national identity has taken a hit. POTUS will now soon be flown around in a British/Italian helicopter (which Lockheed Martin will assemble in this country and stick a US flag on the side).

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6881727/

American-designed and built Sikorsky helicopters have served as Marine One for 40 years. Maybe we should also consider buying the A-380 to serve as Air Force One? Maybe I'm being too sensitive, but I think only American helicopters should have been considered for this contract.

 

[Foxcow]

Well Airbus is trying to build a plant in Wichita to be eligible for the USAF tanker contract. What a shame...

 

[Jack Schitt]

American-designed and built Sikorsky helicopters have served as Marine One for 40 years.

I thought Igor Sikorsky was a Russian????

 

[jarhead]

He was Russian born, but fled to America in 1919. His work was done here.

BTW, does POTUS need 23 of them, or are their other customers for these 23 choppers?

 

[FR8mastr]

Just goes to show how messed up this country has become, heck cancel the F-22 buy some euro fighters or maybe a mirage.

 

[Corona]

It's only a contract for 23 aircraft, but our national pride and national identity has taken a hit. POTUS will now soon be flown around in a British/Italian helicopter (which Lockheed Martin will assemble in this country and stick a US flag on the side). American-designed and built Sikorsky helicopters have served as Marine One for 40 years. Maybe we should also consider buying the A-380 to serve as Air Force One? Maybe I'm being too sensitive, but I think only American helicopters should have been considered for this contract.

No, you're not being too sensitive. I worked on Sikorskys many moons ago: They are made of the right stuff. WTF happened to the CityBus (or whatever it's called) that Sikorsky certified here recently? From what I've read, it is the top dawg in the helo fleet, and is based on H60 components. What more could you want?

I'm not into the whole Buy American frenzy that's been going on in this country over the last 20 years...I drive a Toyota that never breaks down..., however, this is national security we are talking about. Also, Americans do generally make the best aircraft, with few exceptions, IMHO.

I am disappointed the gov. has gone this route.

C

 

[Rogue5]

The $6.1 billion contract - $3.6 billion for the fleet of 23 helicopters and the rest for research and development - is far from the Pentagon's largest.

For any of you who care how your tax dollars are spent: Although "far from the Pentagon's largest" deal in terms of dollars, the math works out to $156,521,739.13 per A/C at the quoted price per unit. Factor in the R&D, it works out to $265,217,391.30 per copter.

Think its got a Plasma TV and a mini-bar in there for that much?

And last I heard we've got one President, do we really need 23 Marine Ones?

 

[wackford]

I drive a Toyota that never breaks down..., however, this is national security we are talking about.

Good for you. Bad for the U.S.A., despite some assembly in the states.

 

[cherokee]

Good for you. Bad for the U.S.A., despite some assembly in the states.

I guess I'm not so sure bad for the USA. I drive an Japanese car aswell, over 110,000 miles and never done a things other than oil,brakes, and tires. I believe this competition forces US car makers tomake better products. If there was no competition, we'd still need tobuy a new car every few years like we did in the 80s before theJapanese cars made it here. Without competition GM, Ford, Etc wouldhave no incentive to improve their product.

 

[VFR on Top]

They always launch several helos when the prez needs a lift for decoy purposes. My question is, why do the Marines have a lock on that flying? Why not the Army? The Army's had a much longer aviation tradition than the Marine Corpse.

 

[Corona]

Good for you. Bad for the U.S.A., despite some assembly in the states.

Nope, it's good for me and the USA. I get a better product; America gets a better-run business. My Toyota is the first "foreign" car I've ever owned. I've owned or driven all the domestic makes, and they continually let me down.

BTW, the idea of "foreign" vs "domestic" make has been moot for a decade or more, as some Chevys and Chryslers are made in Mexico, and some Fords are made in Canada, eh?

He[[, what am I saying; Chrysler isn't even an American company anymore.

C

 

[jarhead]

They always launch several helos when the prez needs a lift for decoy purposes. My question is, why do the Marines have a lock on that flying? Why not the Army? The Army's had a much longer aviation tradition than the Marine Corpse.

Ohhhh, I don't know about that. Marines were flying off carriers in WWII. The Army Air Corps turned into the U.S. Airforce long ago, and basically flies just helo's now, while the Marine Corps flies al sorts of a/c..... Harriers to Ospry, F/A18 to C130, and a whole range of helo's.

As far as Marine One, Just like AF One, it's tradition more than anything else, and Marines have security duty with the president at the White House and Camp David.

If we had the Army with POTUS choppers, then the Coast Guard and Navy would want some of that too, and we'd have 100 helos for the POTUS in various livery

 

[BONAFIED]

And last I heard we've got one President, do we really need 23 Marine Ones?

A lot of other dignitaries and government officials are chaufferedaround by this fleet. The choppers often follow the Presidentaround when he travels. As you probably know, the leader of thefree world rolls with a sizeable entourage and security detail. Hell most of the time they need several decoys when he goesanywhere. Given all the contingencies mx notwithstanding, I'msurprised they only got 23.

Side note: I got an impromptu tour of Marine One back in 1995when Clinton was in JAC. SS told my uncle to move his plane toanother td, he said he would if we could get a tour. We hungaround for about 30 min, he came back a gave us a quick walk-through.-Oh the simpler times, how'd it all get so messed up.

 

[FN FAL]

They always launch several helos when the prez needs a lift for decoy purposes. My question is, why do the Marines have a lock on that flying? Why not the Army? The Army's had a much longer aviation tradition than the Marine Corpse.

It's pretty simple there doughboy, the Marines are the Navy's Army. And since the Navy's Army flies aircraft, it's the Navy's Army Airforce. And the Pres is pretty happy riding in the Airforce of the Navy's Army and that's how it's going to be.

 

[jarhead]

It's pretty simple there doughboy, the Marines are the Navy's Army. And since the Navy's Army flies aircraft, it's the Navy's Army Airforce. And the Pres is pretty happy riding in the Airforce of the Navy's Army and that's how it's going to be.

My head hurts after following that all over

 

[Corona]

My head hurts after following that all over

And of course remember the Air Force used to be the Army's Air Force long before there was an Air Force...

C

 

[jarhead]

And of course remember the Air Force used to be the Army's Air Force long before there was an Air Force...

C

Ya, 'dat true too!

 

[jarhead]

If the Navy can have airplanes, how come the Airforce can't have submarines?

 

[FN FAL]

My head hurts after following that all over

Well, that would explain the "leather neck".

 

[Tim47SIP]

Hold your shorts here!

You have to look at percent of parts built in the U.S. as well as assembled in the U.S. versus abroad. You will find that Sikorsky out sources quite a bit of their parts and production side. They have partners with Brazil, China, Japan, Spain and Taiwan. The percentage of parts Sikorsky has manufactured outside the U.S. is very close if not more to the percentage US101 is using. Frankly, Sikorsky was fibbing about an "all American" helicopter. Their tacticts backfired with their pricey advertisement campaign when observers quickly pointed out their high overseas dependence for production requirements.

Another problem arose in Dec of 2001 when the requirments changed due to mission enhancements. The VH-3D's (S-92) performance margines were quickly exhausted. U.S. 101 has maintained greater performance margines and proven technology from the 101 project and may have sealed the bid. It has a larger cabin, longer range, greater payload and a proven combat record. Additionally, the aircraft had to be C-17 compatable which the U.S. 101 was. The aircraft is also using the new GE-T700 engines that produce the highest thrust which have yet to be integrated into the VH-3D.

Personally, I would have liked to see an "all American" aircraft win. But we don't have one. Boeing/Bell would have been the closest that would fit the bill (CH-47 or V-22). So don't jsut kick back and armchair quarterback the idea that the U.S. Gov has gone outside the U.S. for the aircreaft. These aircraft will be 100% built and maintained here in the good old U.S. of A.

On another note, the total package price includes a whole lot more than rogue is thinking. This includes a maintenance, spare parts, publications, tech reps, and priority manufacturing package,as well as additional support for some time to come. Not just research and procurement.

If you need to know where the info came from, find a copy of Roror&Wing, Rotorcraft report, page 8, Dec 2004.

 

[FN FAL]

If the Navy can have airplanes, how come the Airforce can't have submarines?

You should know that one better than I jarhaid...because of "corporate culture", if the Airforce had a submarine, they would probably submerge with the screen doors on...then what would ya have?

 

[jarhead]

You should know that one better than I jarhaid...because of "corporate culture", if the Airforce had a submarine, they would probably submerge with the screen doors on...then what would ya have?

A reef?

 

[FN FAL]

And of course remember the Air Force used to be the Army's Air Force long before there was an Air Force...

C

Yea...that's the sad part about the Airforce...cars were around for fifty years before the Airforce's history began. Meanwhile, the Army, the Navy and the Navy's Army, also known as the Marines, already had the better part of one hundred and fifty years in country. Not that that's a bad thing.

Then in the middle of all this history, genetics played it's part and there were enough six footers in the country to start that bastard organization called the "Coast Guard". They had to be six foot tall to join, because if their boats sank, they had to be able to walk home...but that's another story.

 

[EagleRJ]

No, you're not being too sensitive. I worked on Sikorskys many moons ago: They are made of the right stuff. WTF happened to the CityBus (or whatever it's called) that Sikorsky certified here recently? From what I've read, it is the top dawg in the helo fleet, and is based on H60 components. What more could you want?

I think the S-92 Helobus was Sikorsky's contender for the Marine One contract. They are also marketing it for the oil rig and VIP markets. It looks like one heck of a helicopter.
The funny thing is, Agusta/Westland had to find a US defense contractor to build the EH-101 for this contract. They needed a company whose employees had 'Yankee White' security clearances (Presidential Security) that would be able to work on a Marine One replacement.

If the Navy can have airplanes, how come the Airforce can't have submarines?

That inter-service rivalry has cost the country a lot of money and several fine platforms. The Cheyenne attack helicopter comes to mind. It would have cost a lot less than the Apache, but the Air Force had it killed because it was "too fast" for the Army to fly. The A-10 nearly met the same fate just before Gulf War I.

 

[Checks]

the army used to fly the president back in the 50's...not sure what happened to change it, maybe the president starting believing those corny marine commercials.

 

[FN FAL]

A reef?

Hahahaha!

One of my dad's (dad's a retired nuke sub sailor) flying buddies is old Army dog from the Korean war era...he still gives me shiat about submariners going to sea as 100 sailors and coming home as 50 couples. That old Army dude reminds me of Capt. Bat Guano in the movie "Dr. Strangelove" and I still love having the chance to drink with that old doughboy...even if he still makes jokes about sub sailors being husband and wife.

 

[FN FAL]

the army used to fly the president back in the 50's...not sure what happened to change it, maybe the president starting believing those corny marine commercials.

Yea...that's a no brainer. Remember not too long ago when Marine recruiting commercials were like, "Dungeons and Dragons"?

What the hell was up with that?

 

[PropsForward]

BTW, does POTUS need 23 of them, or are their other customers for these 23 choppers?

Just guessing, but it may be for staging. Ya know. one in DC, one in TX, one at the airport where he will be for lunch next Tuesday...

 

[OrphicSeth]

Remember not too long ago when Marine recruiting commercials were like, "Dungeons and Dragons"?

Talk about a strange target audience. Does that mean that the Marines of today are the geeky dorks from jr. high? Are they siting around and playing "Magic" and D+D during their free time? What strange mental picture that is...

...of course now the Marines are recruiting all those hipster rock climbers.

 

[Khirsah]

If a good number of the parts for this helo are being made by people making 3 cents a month over in asia, why are we paying $150-some odd million a copy? Have we learned nothing as a nation from Wal-Mart?