Welcome to Flightinfo.com

  • Register now and join the discussion
  • Friendliest aviation Ccmmunity on the web
  • Modern site for PC's, Phones, Tablets - no 3rd party apps required
  • Ask questions, help others, promote aviation
  • Share the passion for aviation
  • Invite everyone to Flightinfo.com and let's have fun

Security and 9/11: continued

Welcome to Flightinfo.com

  • Register now and join the discussion
  • Modern secure site, no 3rd party apps required
  • Invite your friends
  • Share the passion of aviation
  • Friendliest aviation community on the web

Typhoon1244

Member in Good Standing
Joined
Jul 29, 2002
Posts
3,078
NOTE: this turned into a horribly long rant. Please bear with me. Perhaps I need sleep...

I can't say much about the new T.S.A. screeners because I've had almost no experience with them. The ones I've seen--trainees mostly--certainly seemed more alert, friendly, and intelligent than screeners I have encountered in the past.

In the "I can't take it anymore (security)" thread, somebody spoke of the "death of outrage" in this country. This has concerned me too. Americans didn't react to the attacks on U.S.S. Cole and the W.T.C. the way they did to the attacks on U.S.S. Maine and Pearl Harbor. Why is that? (Yeah, I know Maine probably blew up on her own...that's not my point.)

...I have now typed and deleted my next paragraph three times. I wanted to talk about disappointment in our intelligence agencies. Many of us felt the FBI and CIA should be cleaned out, just like the command in Hawaii was shaken up in '41. That didn't happen. Instead, George W. Bush patted the directors of both agencies on the back, told them what a good job they were doing.

I wanted to talk about an irrational but understandable American hatred--post 9/11--for all things middle eastern. I wanted to talk about how we were all urged not to be angry at Muslims because many of our neighbors are peaceful practitioners of that faith. We even changed the plots of new movies so no one's feelings would be hurt. I was going to suggest that removing anyone who fell into the same demographic as the September hijackers should have been immediately removed from positions of authority (airport security, federal government, transportation, law enforcement, etc.). Just like what was done to Japanese Americans after 12/7.

And in the same instant I come to that conclusion, I know it's wrong. It goes against everything this nation is supposed to stand for. It would be unfair. It would tear this nation apart.

Then I considered the question...how do you absolutely prevent this from happening again? Absolutely? You cauterize Islam. Remove it from the face of the planet. We have the weapons, and we have the means to deliver them.

Insane.

That would violate every single principle...no, it's worse than that. There aren't words to describe what a horrible act that would be. If we chose, in an instant of mania, to take that step, there probably would be a lot fewer terrorist incidents. But would it be a better world? No.

(Here's the scary part: there are those out there who would say "yes.")

My point? My point is that I don't have the answers to such questions. I get a certain animal pleasure from the image of hundreds of BGM-109's streaking into the middle east to avenge the victims of 9/11. But I also recognize that if our government didn't feel the need to involve itself in the affairs of foreign governments so often...9/11 might not have happened. Sometimes, when you step in an ant hill, you get bitten.

I do know this: eight of my fellow pilots were the first victims of last year's attacks. The treatment that we line pilots often receive from airport security--often by the countrymen of the attackers!--is an insult to the memory of those eight pilots, to say nothing of our own integrity. I don't condone what was done to Japanese Americans in 1941...but how would American soldiers, sailors, and Marines have felt during the ensuing war if everytime they traveled, they were carefully scrutinized by countrymen of the enemy? I actually heard--on the D.F.W. airport employee train as it accelerated out of terminal E--a group of Argenbright screeners gloating about making pilots squirm.

You tell me: how should I feel about that? Should I assume a blank expression and say "yes ma'am, no sir?" Am I allowed to be mad as h_ll?

Suppose it had been my wife who'd been forced to drink her own breast milk. Should I shrug and say, "that's war?"

Should we wait until we're all used to being routinely humiliated, surrender whatever dignity we have left to the gods of security? Or should we tell our leaders "this is not working," and demand that they fix it? Should organizations like ALPA stop masterbating about guns in the cockpit and start getting serious about intelligent airport security? Is it time for that yet?

There has to be a better way!

[These are not reasoned opinions. These are my gut feelings about 9/11 and airport security. I'm hoping to find some kind of relief by spilling them before all of you. So have at me...tell me what you think...]
 
I think you make some valid points.

We have become a nation of pansies who are too worried about being politically correct and too fearful of offending someone to take the necessary steps to protect ourselves. Call it the "Oprahfication of America".
We also have politicians who have learned making the appearance of doing something to solve a peoblem is as good as or better than solving it. It gets good press, and you haven't really done anything to offend anyone.. a win/win proposition.

This is what gave birth to the current security situation. We avoid profiles and put on a show at ticket counters, checkpoints, and gates by asking useless questions and searching people who are as far from the accepted FBI terrorist profile as possible. None of this will really stop a terrorist, as seen this weekend when 14 reporters from CBS news snuck knives onto airplanes. It is only meant to lull the general public into a false sense of security that it's safe to fly again.

To their credit, the new Federal TSA screeners are professional, polite and efficient. However, since they operate under the same rules and administration as the old screeners, I don't hope to see much improvement in the situation.

I do know this. If the attacks of 9/11/01 happened 50 years ago, we wouldn't be more concerned with feelings than we would be with preventing future attacks.
 
Typhoon1244,

That was a good post. Let me start by saying that whole breast milk thing wasn't the TSA. That was a private screening company. The TSA doesn't make people drink their carry on liquids but I got your point and I too would be mad as he11.

It is my opinion that terrorist today would have not been as successful as they were on 911. Passengers have changed. Flight crew have changed. Everything has changed.

Before the attacks, pilots were trained to surrended the aircraft. Flight attendants were told to work with terrorists to save lives. Now we know better. I honestly don't think today several people with box cutters could overtake an entire airliner. People are mad and willing to fight.

I am biased (as pointed out in other threads) but I feel the TSA has the capabilities to ensure safe air travel. Further enhancements to TSA policy, such as a form of profiling, will only make the TSA that much more effective.

As Americans, our rights to privacy are extremely important to us. And for good reason. We will find the answer eventually.
 
Excellent post.

I to believe the country and it's leaders are more worried about hurting somebodies feelings. I say the He!! with political correctness. Let's start telling people how we really feel and if they don't like screw them. They can go back to where ever they came from or go live in a hole in the ground. There is no place for this "PC" crap never has and never will be. They have let the ACLU and Jessi Jackson and his types get their way too much. It's time to stop and let them have it. If he doesn't like it he can move over with UBL and kiss his A$$ over there in some cave. Oh wait he wouldn't be able to cheat our government out of all that money he does. Strap all his types to a cruise missle and lauch to the east.

I'm not mad I'm pi$$ed because this "PC" stuff has gotten us in real danger.

Hey Fitzwell your not spending all my tax dollars at work on the internet are you? You seem to be here a lot and yet you say you are a supervisor. Now I know what the supervisors are doing. Thanks. Our tax dollars hard at work I see.
 
Last edited:
Dep676 said:
Hey Fitzwell your not spending all my tax dollars at work on the internet are you? You seem to be here a lot and yet you say you are a supervisor. Now I know what the supervisors are doing. Thanks. Our tax dollars hard at work I see.

Dude, give it a rest.

I am working 5 am 'til 1:30 pm daily. It isn't the flight schedule I'm used to working but it pays the bills while on furlough. I'm sorry you hate the TSA, security, rules, policy, law enforcement, regulations, government or whatever but your posts will not change things unless you take your complaints to the people in change. Busting my balls because I am a supervisor screener with the TSA is only hurting your credibility.

You see, I want the same things you want (minus all the camouflage). Tone it down a bit and you will have valid points people will listen to.
 
Dep676 said:
Hey Fitzwell your not spending all my tax dollars at work on the internet are you? You seem to be here a lot and yet you say you are a supervisor. Now I know what the supervisors are doing. Thanks. Our tax dollars hard at work I see.
Sir, I appreciate your support, but...

Dep676...let's go easy on Mr. Fitzwell, shall we? As a furloughed pilot working for the T.S.A., he is now helping to solve these problems from the inside...unlike those of us on the outside who are almost powerless to make a difference. Do I believe RichFitzwell and the T.S.A. are going to fix these problems overnight? H_ll no! But it's a good start. I said it once and I'll say it again: every screener in the country should have been fired on September 12th...and I can't think of anyone better suited to take their places than pilots.

In my original post, I said that a lot of us get a kind of animal satisfaction out of the image of nuclear weapons winging their way into the middle east. I don't know if you're one of those people who wouldn't hesitate to "push the button," if it was up to you. I hope you're more level-headed than that...

...but your avatar scares me.

Do you know what the worst part of September 11th was? The people who deserve to be punished the most are dead! By carrying out a suicide attack, they've not only succeeded in violently injuring our people and our country, but they've also left us without a target for all our hatred and anger!

We can kill Bin Laden a hundred times over. I can't say I'll feel avenged. I can only hope that, if there is an after-life, the nineteen September hijackers are suffering in ways humans are not capable of understanding.
 
ifly4food said:


We have become a nation of pansies who are too worried about being politically correct and too fearful of offending someone to take the necessary steps to protect ourselves. Call it the "Oprahfication of America".

To their credit, the new Federal TSA screeners are professional, polite and efficient. However, since they operate under the same rules and administration as the old screeners, I don't hope to see much improvement in the situation

You're right on the Oprahfication of America...but wrong on the TSA screeners. They operate under a totally different administration (TSA instead of FAA) than the previous screeners. The also have different rules, SOP's, hiring standards and training. Don't get me wrong, they are not the cure all and they will still miss stuff, hopefully they will do better, but they will never be perfect.
 

Latest resources

Back
Top