RFP Announced at DCI

[General Lee]

I love that avtar. Youzzza.....

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[FDJ2]

Has anybody heard anything about 300 - 500 Delta Captains putting in their early retirment papers in April or May ?????

That's a rumor, but the facts don't bear it out. I was at the council 44 LEC meeting today and listened to our R&I Committee Chairman state that as of today only 21 DAL pilots have submitted their paper work for an early out in May. While more may submit their paper work at the last minute, the number that have actually done so is only 21. Traditionally May has more early outs than any other months because of the vacation payout in April, the number will probably climb above 21, but it is no where near 300-500 at this time.

 

[Medeco]

Sleepy

Sleepy,

First, This is not a pissing contest, so dont take my next comments that way, just talking with a fellow brother.

I dont "hang with management types" as you say I just said I was around them enough to hear how they work.

Yes, I know that our VP of Air op's told a recurrent class that we will like the RFP announcement but we could have had all 45, he is a jerk and we all know it, including the guys I told you I know.

I have also heard about the FA stories, including that one. Just today I was called and told about an FA in DFW on probation who did not call back in a resonable amount of time and was fired on the spot, first time. ASA treats out FA's very poorly, I dont understand why this is so other than they are negotiating too.

I have heard that our grievences are up ten fold, and that management has said they will use the firing of pilots as negotiating capital during the contract process, that is truly sad if it is true and reading the Session by session updates on ALPA's web site I can begin to believe things like this are true.

I will and I believe most of our group will stand up for what is right when it comes to playing hardball in the end. I think part of their strategy is to scare us into thinking we will be fired on the spot when planes start breaking in outstations and block times increase and delays increase and so on, if it were to come to that.

The ASA/airline culture is way behind the times when it comes to dealing with your employees in a positive way, they still do it the old school way and it is too bad. There is no reason it is needed.

They will TRY to use the 25 against us, but I am confident out Rep's will laugh them off the table and have good responses.

I met a guy who just came back form 2 years of being fired by Scott Young, he won, and is suing for lots of money and will probably win.

If we can get ND, DB, CS, and a hand full of others out of the positions they are in and replaced with true professionals then I believe ASA will have better relations witht the pilot group and a lot more respect, these guys have no business being were they are, especially CS who is kissing up for the VP of flight ops position.

Anyway, I am not hanging with management, and I do like my job at ASA even with the fact that I will not be able to upgrade even after the 25 jets are on property, its not the end of the world and many guys at the top flying 777's and 767's spent 10 years or more without 4 stripes, the MTV generation likes instant gratification.

Fly safe, smile, and enjoy life the best you can,

Medeco

 

[General Lee]

FDJ2,

I heard that rumor from very high sources in ATL(in the CPO). I know it doesn't sound right either, and I don't know where they got that number, but the people that told me that were serious. We shall see.....During the last retirement (Sept 1st) the company was expecting 150 (as told to me by a 777 Check Airman) and they had 386.

Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[N813CA]

Today, our management finally announced the results we were told to expect around "mid-January" from the "Request For Proposal" (RFP) solicited by DCI late last fall.

Of the 45 aircraft offered during that RFP, Delta has announced that 13 Embraer aircraft will go to Chautauqua Airlines, 25 Bombardier CL-65's will go to ASA, and 7 Bombardier CL-65's will go to SkyWest Airlines.

Based upon established pay rates in current pilot contracts, each airlines' managements submitted their bids. In fact, no airline participating in the RFP offered any cut-rate "B" payscale; none offered any reduced crew costs below their negotiated rates; or below what currently exists in their respective current contracts.

We have said from the start that those 45 aircraft would go where they were originally scheduled to go, and we believe today that is what they did.

It is important to recognize that pilots do not decide how or where aircraft are distributed; managements decide, and, ostensibly, those decisions are based upon where those aircraft are expected to generate the most revenue.

As Randy said in today's message to all Comair people, ". . . we feel very good about the initiatives accomplished throughout the company over the last two years to reduce costs and improve operational reliability and customer service. We must continue this focus in the future."

We agree.

 

[FDJ2]

FDJ2,

I heard that rumor from very high sources in ATL(in the CPO). I know it doesn't sound right either, and I don't know where they got that number, but the people that told me that were serious. We shall see.....During the last retirement (Sept 1st) the company was expecting 150 (as told to me by a 777 Check Airman) and they had 386.

Bye Bye---General Lee

General, according to the DALPA R&I Chairman, on the specific point of how many DAL pilots have actually submitted their retirement papers for an early retirement in May the number as of today was 21 early retirements. However, many more have made inquiries and may or may not opt for early retirement, but they have yet to actually drop their letter. There are quite a few fence sitters out there, I'm sure the number will climb. JMO, but with no BK on the horizon and apparently little to no effort by management to negotiate a mid contract adjustment, the driving factor will probably be the GATT rate.

 

[General Lee]

FDJ2,

I agree with you, I thought that number was high also. But, I heard this from several people that I know and trust in the ATL CPO--and are in HIGH places-----and I still thought the number was way too high---but they said it--not me. Take it easy....

Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[sleepy]

Ok Medeco, I'll buy that.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Oh, even after ASA takes delivery of these aircraft, they can still be redistributed. We have no scope, we have no aircraft of our own, we have no flying of our own.

That was Duane Woerth's opinion at the Leadership conference. To quote fom one of our Rep's when they asked about scope at a Connection carrier.

He then went on to say that of the 42 airlines in ALPA, only 12 actually sell space, either seats or cargo space. The other 30 only provide "lift" either as codeshare or as cargo lift.

I asked Duane to clarify how this "brand scope" would work and referenced his statistics about 12 carriers having the "brand" and 30 of us providing the "lift". Specifically, I asked if the 30 would be at the table, or would the 12 do the negotiating on behalf of the 30? Duane answered that legally, only the 12 could do the negotiating and that "it would be illegal for the others to participate".

Now compare this to Delta management's opinion...

"Delta Air Lines will negotiate in good faith with whomever ALPA sends to the bargaining table as designated representatives..."

And you wonder why I send checks to the RJDC, where would we be without them?

 

[General Lee]

Fins,

Did you ask Duane what he thought of the RJDC mess? And, I still don't think you see the big picture here---you are so focused on ASA---which is understandable. The RJDC wants to allow regionals to get more of the flying---and/or larger airplanes. This would lower the amount of airplanes at a mainline carrier--and thus bring more lower paying jobs to the regionals--effectively lowering the number of higher paying jobs for pilots. Do you want 737s at ASA? Mesa might get them, and I bet the rates will $uck. They would $uck also at ASA compared to Delta. You want the ability to have more 70 seaters or 90 seat RJs---which would NEGATE the addition of more mainline aircraft, and NEGATE the neccesity to hire MORE at Mainline. People who get hired at Mainline usually make more than at the regionals---and that increases the chances of pilots making a great living. You guys at Comair and ASA will really never be able to make what we do at Mainline---and I am not bragging here. We would like to hire more of you (especially ASA guys) and you then you would be able to have a better chance at doing better monetarily. That is how it should work. Not bringing people down to lower wages, but rather bringing people up. The RJDC honchos are guys that know they wouldn't be able to be hired at a Major---either having DUIs, marks on their flying record, or something else that would disqualify them. Or, they "don't want to give up their weekends off" at the regionals and are too lazy to try to get hired. When we get our wages down (eventually) we should be the ones to get the 100 seaters (we will) and expand, and bring the ASA guys up after our furloughs return. That is what everyone should be fighting for--better wages and better quality of life--and you will find that at Mainline.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[~~~^~~~]

General : You are missing the point. The scope battle is merely the symptom, not the disease. The solution to a warning light is not to simply remove the bulb.

ALPA needs to come together and ALPA will come together when the "lift" airlines are enabled to excercise their legal right to representation.

No, I don't think one airplane or another should be operated by one division or another. I almost don't care. What I believe is that Delta flying should be performed by Delta pilots. Just that simple.

Now that does not mean that Delta can buy an airline and the Delta pilots can have all the acquired airplanes and routes. ALPA Merger and Fragmentation policy should apply.

I actually think you and I agree on these points. We also know why this did not happen....

When's the meeting? I would like to attend, since Grinstien is my boss as well. I'll buy the Starbucks...


P.S. I personally know most of the "RJDC Honchos" and you are flat wrong about their backgrounds. None has had a DUI, most have held offices in ALPA at the LEC, MEC and at National. They worked the two ASA EMB crashes as ALPA Safety and were the same folks that created the "One Level of Safety" campaign that I'm very thankful for as a "lift" pilot. Why they simply don't go to a major and forget this mess I don't know. I don't know why anyone would want to be a Chief Pilot, in management, or a Grievance Charmain, but I am thankful that somebody wants to do the job that needs to be done.

Yes, they are line pilots and for line pilots, you must admit they write well, document their arguements and have been much more honest that ALPA has during the process. And whether you like them, or hate them, they have shaped the debate and protected ASA and Comair from jets for jobs. They have argued for the restoration of ALPA under the rule of its Constitution and Bylaws, further, I believe they will likely prevail and save the union - although the union will probably never give them credit unless the current "Honchos" are forced from office.

As usual, when you engage in the "Delta pilots are superior to every other life form" remarks, you are mistaken and you lead us to the conclusion that Delta pilots are arrogant and do not know what they are talking about. Prejudice in either form is incorrect and inappropriate.

 

[scopeCMRandASA]

And you wonder why I send checks to the RJDC, where would we be without them?

Keep sending, and watch where you'll be with them.

--a concerned regional pilot

 

[~~~^~~~]

Keep sending, and watch where you'll be with them.

--a concerned regional pilot

Well lets see, we have not accepted ALPA's Jets for Jobs protocols, a flush down, or allowed the Delta MEC to use the bodies of unemployed Connection pilots for fill dirt for the new runway, so I guess were doing OK so far.... 40 more jets are coming and the Delta MEC made sure that their pilots would not fly them by excluding ASA & Comair pilots.

Hopefully, my support will help return Delta flying to Delta pilots, restore our union and our industry. We also might help save DCI over 1 million a year for hotel rooms in Atlanta to house another division's pilots in our domicile.

I am told Comair flies a SAV nap (CDO) out of ATL. In other words, a hotel room for a 45 minute flight to a hotel room, back to a hotel room for several days! Isn't that NUTS!

 

[General Lee]

Fins,

Sure, I agree that the flying should be done by "Delta" pilots, and I also think a "staple" would be great for all of us---but the RJDC thing is not helping relations. I really guess I don't know what the RJDC wants ULTIMATELY. Do they want the right to have bigger airplanes ultimately? If they do, that will be bad for airline pilots and their future salaries. Do they just want more bargaining power with the Majors? If they do--that will mean less future airplanes for mainline---which will mean more jobs at the regional level---which will mean lowering the AVERAGE pilot salary again. We should want MORE higher paying jobs.

As far as the meeting--I am sure you will go and Grinstein will tell of the doom and gloom and how it is all of our fault (even though they made HUGE mistakes themselves--like the stock buy back -$2.3 Billion pre-9-11). I won't be showing up---the main reason is because we have people he should be talking to---our negotiators---who are still ready to talk. Grinstein was recently at a NYC meeting with employees and he stated more than once that our concession COULD equal a TOTAL of 30%---with pay cuts and work rules savings combined to EQUAL 30%. He said that more than once and was querried about just that. Then, at a later meeting he said he wanted 30% pay cuts PLUS other work rule cost cuts....What is the deal here? I'll tell you---he is trying to "Manage our Expectations." If at one point he says 30% TOTAL, then goes back to 30% plus the others---then we will be HAPPY again when he just goes back to the 30% total. It is a classic negotiating move. He also recently said that the other employees are "subsidising the pilots" with their HUGE (?) cuts--which in reality are not that huge--and they had no contract to argue anyway. He also quickly dismissed the other screw ups---like the SERP (Senior Executive Retirement Package) as "that is just the past--let's move on...." That is ridiculous.

So, eventually you and I can meet for Starbucks (maybe A or B Concourse in ATL)----but I won't be going to any meeting, and I bet most of our guys won't either--except maybe some of our negotiators who know the facts....That would be interesting....

Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Medeco]

General Lee!

I am surprised you said you dont know what RJDC really wants?


How can you argue so strongly against them when you have not even bothered to read the propaganda they distribute in a number of ways?

Did you not mean to say that?

RJDC has some very good arguments that ALPA will have a very hard time defending, that doesnt mean everything they want is a good idea and should come true. They want equal representation and "Good Scope".

You of all people should make sure you know the facts for yourself, if you really dont.

Maybe I mis-read.

Medeco