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Record load factors driving away the best passengers??

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FlyBoeingJets

YES, that's NICE
Joined
Mar 20, 2003
Posts
1,802
http://biz.yahoo.com/iw/060822/0156085.html

Requests for Charter Surge by 50 Percent for Million Air's Charter Divisions

Tuesday August 22, 8:30 am ET

HOUSTON, TX--(MARKET WIRE)--Aug 22, 2006 -- As a result of increased delays and inconveniences tied to commercial airline travel, Million Air Charter, the private jet aircraft transportation division of the Million Air fixed-base operation (FBO) chain, has seen a 50 percent surge in air charter requests in one week.

Since Aug. 10, Million Air's charter requests have risen to a level comparable to the holiday season. Those requests have been equally split between domestic and international flights.

Roger Woolsey, president and chief executive officer of Million Air, said most reservations have been made by business travelers.

"There are three prices to doing business -- the out of pocket dollar of the transaction, the access cost of doing business with a company and the quality of the output," Woolsey said. "Right now with the changes in commercial aviation, a business' access costs, or in this case travel costs, are through the roof. What used to be a daytrip now requires an overnight stay. Productivity is suffering because business professionals lose valuable hours of their workday standing in long lines at commercial airports. They also can't depend on the reliability of commercial schedules or the availability of flights. Private charter travel alleviates those hassles and actually helps companies lower their cost of doing business."

Million Air offers response times as fast as one-hour for reservations, worldwide operations, gourmet catering and limo service as a few of the added customer service benefits.

"Chartering a private airplane is not just for the rich and famous, as most people tend to think," Woolsey said. "To put it in perspective, the cost is slightly more than a first-class commercial airline ticket. When you consider the incidental costs of flying commercial, such as hotel stays and meals, not to mention the lost employee productivity time, the value of charter far exceeds commercial travel. The customer is in control, enabling employees to return home the same night to enjoy quality time with family and friends -- you can't put a price on that."

Drent Sarault, vice president of Million Air Charter, believes there is a misconception about the air charter traveler. Only 14 percent of Million Air's charter customers are top managers, such as CEOs and presidents. The other 86 percent are middle managers and other professional staff members.
"Air charter travel is a cost-effective way for businesses to connect with their customers all over the country," Sarault said. "Commercial airlines only travel to 558 airports around the U.S., while private aircraft can access 15,000 private airports in cities of all sizes across the country, making it much more convenient to reach your customers."

"It's difficult to predict how long this spike will last," Woolsey said. "But, I believe any luxury product or service used once becomes a necessity. Once someone experiences the convenience of air charter travel, they will truly see the value. As long as it remains difficult to fly on commercial airlines, I think more people are going to explore air charter options."

Million Air, one of the largest aviation service providers in the world, provides upscale, private jet and FBO services. Headquartered in Houston, the company operates a network of 30 FBO locations in the United States, Canada and the Caribbean. Its charter divisions, which consist of large and medium size jets, turbo-props, and helicopters, operate charters worldwide from strategic locations across North America. For more information, visit www.millionair.com.



Looks to me like "High End" service offered for domestic travel has a lot of competition. NetJets, Millionaire and the wholly owned corporate jet.

I think a lot of people are not just getting mad when a flight cancels for mx or wx and there isn't an open seat until 1, 2 or even 3 days later. I've heard that happened a lot this summer. (The dark side to the big profits this year)

High load factors without high frequency is driving your passengers away Mr. Old legacy dude.


Pilot thoughts---Too bad we can't jettison the coach section when there are problems and let the first class folks continue on their way.


CFO thoughts---Too bad we can't put coach passengers in first class when the business execs use Millionaire.
 
With charter, you pay for what you get. Wait until these execs get on a 1977 aircraft which breaks on the ramp on the way to an important meeting. Good luck in finding a recovery anytime during high demand days. Very few of these aircraft are new G-IVs or 604s. When they also figure that most of the charters have a 700 hour part time flight instructor in the right seat who has never seen a simulator and is flying into Aspen or Telluride in the winter, or have no aircraft backups for maintenance problems, they'll lose business. There are relatively very few good, solid, charter companies out there. When they operate on a shoe-string budget, corners tend to be cut. "If we forego the $2,000 in de-ice" I get 10% of what I save. This sh1t is pervasive out there.
 
miles otoole said:
With charter, you pay for what you get. Wait until these execs get on a 1977 aircraft which breaks on the ramp on the way to an important meeting. Good luck in finding a recovery anytime during high demand days. Very few of these aircraft are new G-IVs or 604s. When they also figure that most of the charters have a 700 hour part time flight instructor in the right seat who has never seen a simulator and is flying into Aspen or Telluride in the winter, or have no aircraft backups for maintenance problems, they'll lose business. There are relatively very few good, solid, charter companies out there. When they operate on a shoe-string budget, corners tend to be cut. "If we forego the $2,000 in de-ice" I get 10% of what I save. This sh1t is pervasive out there.

What are you talking about?

Old airplanes, sounds like NWAs DC9s. Not every UAL flight is a 777 or 747-400.

700 hour pilots? didnt UAL hire 350 pilots?

"if we forego the $2,000 in de-ice"....this sounds like a play out of the SWA playbook. Bonuses for fuel saved.....isnt that why they taxi at a full out sprint speed, not a brisk walk?

This story is the "real story" behind the airlines problem. When the high end pax runs off with "a new girlfriend", one that treats him better than the old wife who ignores him.
 
skiandsurf said:
What are you talking about?

Old airplanes, sounds like NWAs DC9s. Not every UAL flight is a 777 or 747-400.

700 hour pilots? didnt UAL hire 350 pilots?

"if we forego the $2,000 in de-ice"....this sounds like a play out of the SWA playbook. Bonuses for fuel saved.....isnt that why they taxi at a full out sprint speed, not a brisk walk?

This story is the "real story" behind the airlines problem. When the high end pax runs off with "a new girlfriend", one that treats him better than the old wife who ignores him.

Then why is the accident rate 5 times higher with charter operators than with 121 ops? You still require simulator training for both pilots at all 121 operators. All pilots are full time employees. Most passengers would be shocked at the average experience, training and qualifications of the guy/gal in the right seat of the typical king air, CJ1, Hawker 400, et al. Again, not all are like this. There are a few charter operators who have training requirements, pilot qualifications, full time employment, etc. similar to the airlines. However, the problem becomes when you have a 500-hour copilot who has never seen a simulator, never gone through any standardized training program, and flies 10 hours a month in between his gig as a CFI. There are thousands of them out there "gaining experience" and you know it.
If you fly with a reputable charter company, great. However, the problem is with the charter brokers whose only incentive is to put butts in seats. There are numerous shady charter operators out there who operate 2-3 planes and have one part time mechanic and 4 part time pilots who might fly 100 hours a year and ARE directly incentivized by receiving a percentage of how much money they can save-I am sure you've seen them. How many airlines can be considered "shady." Are UAL and WN considered shady in your opinion?
 
miles otoole said:
Then why is the accident rate 5 times higher with charter operators than with 121 ops? You still require simulator training for both pilots at all 121 operators. All pilots are full time employees. Most passengers would be shocked at the average experience, training and qualifications of the guy/gal in the right seat of the typical king air, CJ1, Hawker 400, et al. Again, not all are like this. There are a few charter operators who have training requirements, pilot qualifications, full time employment, etc. similar to the airlines. However, the problem becomes when you have a 500-hour copilot who has never seen a simulator, never gone through any standardized training program, and flies 10 hours a month in between his gig as a CFI. There are thousands of them out there "gaining experience" and you know it.
If you fly with a reputable charter company, great. However, the problem is with the charter brokers whose only incentive is to put butts in seats. There are numerous shady charter operators out there who operate 2-3 planes and have one part time mechanic and 4 part time pilots who might fly 100 hours a year and ARE directly incentivized by receiving a percentage of how much money they can save-I am sure you've seen them. How many airlines can be considered "shady." Are UAL and WN considered shady in your opinion?

The problem here is that WN and the like have led the public into believing that safety is a given. If a $49 ticket is one of the safest in the world, then what exactly are people willing to pay for? Good pilots? Not anymore.
 
Last edited:
ReportCanoa said:
The problem here is that WN and the like have led the public into believing that safety is a given. If a $49 ticket is one of the safest in the world, then what exactly are people willing to pay for? Good pilots? Not anymore.

At $49.00, WN is making money and the pilots are some of the highest paid in the industry with some of the best working conditions. They can be selective with many thousands of highly qualified applicants. Safety is a given. For every executive who flies on a charter aircraft, there are 10 more who wouldn't get near one because of the wide variance of operators.
 
miles otoole said:
At $49.00, WN is making money and the pilots are some of the highest paid in the industry with some of the best working conditions. They can be selective with many thousands of highly qualified applicants. Safety is a given. For every executive who flies on a charter aircraft, there are 10 more who wouldn't get near one because of the wide variance of operators.

Well, you missed the point. Passengers could care less if a Southwest pilot is well paid. It just happens to be an anomaly in the industry.
 
miles otoole said:
At $49.00, WN is making money and the pilots are some of the highest paid in the industry with some of the best working conditions. They can be selective with many thousands of highly qualified applicants. Safety is a given. For every executive who flies on a charter aircraft, there are 10 more who wouldn't get near one because of the wide variance of operators.

I believe that is a major selling point for Netjets. They have unwaivable pilot requirements written into the customer contracts so that the customer knows what minimum experience and training are involved for both pilots. Granted they pay a heck of a premium over a random charter.
 
miles otoole said:
Then why is the accident rate 5 times higher with charter operators than with 121 ops?

I am sure that there are some "shady" charter operators out there. This is why the fractionals have seen a tremendous growth since 9/11. These require higher minimums than most airlines (certainly Yo-niteds). All of the FOs get type rated (for free). If I am not mistaken, SWA ran 2 737s thru the fence at the end of the runways, was this due to lack of sim training or just trying to save money.....(get in early).

We could go round and round on this debate. You might have had a valid point 15-20 years ago, but in todays world, there are sims for most of the charter planes, and they get used.
 

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