Welcome to Flightinfo.com

  • Register now and join the discussion
  • Friendliest aviation Ccmmunity on the web
  • Modern site for PC's, Phones, Tablets - no 3rd party apps required
  • Ask questions, help others, promote aviation
  • Share the passion for aviation
  • Invite everyone to Flightinfo.com and let's have fun

Poor Kit Darby had to sell his girlfriends car -yea right

Welcome to Flightinfo.com

  • Register now and join the discussion
  • Modern secure site, no 3rd party apps required
  • Invite your friends
  • Share the passion of aviation
  • Friendliest aviation community on the web

needsumluv

Active member
Joined
Sep 10, 2004
Posts
37
Airline work loses luster

Long hours, pay cuts take away the glamour for pilots and attendants.

By Karen Dybis and Joel J. Smith / The Detroit News

b006-airways2-0205y.jpg
[font=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif][size=-2]Charles V. Tines / The Detroit News[/size][/font]​

[font=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif][size=-1]"I don't make the money I would at a major airline, but to me, money isn't everything. It's more quality of life," Spirit pilot Brent Mauntel says.[/size][/font]
dot.gif
Comment on this story
Send this story to a friend
Get Home Delivery

dot.gif




In the early days of air travel, the people working on the planes enjoyed it as much as those who were flying.

A job as a pilot or flight attendant meant cushy wages and benefits, free travel to exotic lands and generous retirement packages rivaling those in the automotive industry.

Today, that picture has changed. The major airlines are in financial turmoil, losing $7.5 billion in 2004. The industry has shed 127,000 full- and part-time jobs since September 11. And most airlines have eliminated defined-benefit pensions for employee-funded 401(k) plans.

Employees are taking the brunt of cutbacks. Last year, more than 8,400 pilots remained laid off. Northwest Airlines just reduced its pilots' pay by 15 percent. Entry-level flight attendants aspire to make as much as the workers at Wal-Mart, often earning $13,000 in their first year.

While airline employees say it is a labor of love, the glamour of flight has faded. Working for an airline has gone from a profession to brag about to just another job. The industry's financial uncertainty has experts predicting the industry faces a revolving door of job candidates and soaring turnover rates in years to come.

"It's not as good a job today as it was a few years ago," said Kit Darby, a United Airlines captain for 20 years. "I've been furloughed five times and worked for three airlines that went out of business. I know what it means to start over."

United pilots are in process of approving an 11.8 percent decrease in pay on top of a 30 percent reduction a year ago. As a result, Darby's pay will go from about $230,000 to $150,000.

"This is not a cheerful time to go into the airline industry," said David Kameras, spokesman for the nation's largest flight attendant union, the Association of Flight Attendants-CWA in Washington, D.C.

Pilots and flight attendants say the biggest changes include:

• Layoffs at the Big Six airlines -- American, United, Delta, Northwest, Continental and US Airways -- have resulted in many workers facing demotions, which they had to accept to keep their jobs.

• With airlines cutting employees, there is less flexibility in selecting where they want to fly and flight times. And that translates into making it harder for working mothers to juggle jobs and childcare. Long hours are standard. Joseph Belotti, a US Airways captain with 27 years of experience, said he spent 192 nights away from home last year.

• Sudden decreases in income have caused stress at home. Darby said he and his girlfriend, a first officer for United, had to sell their car after she was laid off in 2003. She found a new job with a charter airline making $70,000 less than before. The pair's household income has shrunk by at least $150,000 a year, forcing them to rely on savings to pay the bills.

• More customers have gone from respecting the profession to treating the on-board staff like hired help. Also gone are the days when planes served in-flight meals of roast beef and champagne. Now, butter-flavored pretzels tend to be the only thing on the menu, said Holly Morgan, a flight attendant for Pinnacle Airlines Inc.

"I think a lot of people forget that flight attendants are there for one reason and that's your safety. A lot of people think they're only there to serve you drinks," said Belotti, president of AirlineCareer.com, a Web site and job board devoted to flight attendants.

Larger airlines are suffering the most as they try to reduce costs to compete with low-fare carriers. Most of the layoffs since the September 11 terrorist attacks have come from the major airlines.

Northwest Airlines, the largest carrier at Detroit Metropolitan Airport didn't hire a single pilot or flight attendant during 2004. Since early 2001, Northwest has eliminated 13,000 jobs. During the same period, Northwest has lost $1.4 billion.

Meanwhile, low-fare airlines such as Southwest, Spirit, Jet Blue and America West are growing, adding more employees monthly to their payroll. These carriers represent 27 percent of all bookings, up from 15 percent a decade ago.

In response, big legacy carriers such as Northwest have adopted some of their rivals' labor policies, cutting wages and benefits for their pilots, flight attendants mechanics and others.

"It's not a job you do for the money. Because it's not there," said Morgan, a flight attendant on Pinnacle, a regional commuter airline that operates as Northwest Airlink with hubs in Detroit, Memphis and Minneapolis.

Locally, smaller airlines such as Pinnacle, Mesaba and Spirit are attracting new hires despite the dire job outlook. At a recent Pinnacle job fair at Detroit Metropolitan Airport, more than 50 people showed up to apply for about 25 openings for flight attendants.

Yet some left the room when they learned of the lean starting salary, long hours, drug tests and 10-year background checks the airline requires of all candidates. And if they agree to all that, they must undergo four weeks of unpaid training before starting to collect $15.11 per hour -- but only for the time they are aboard the aircraft.

Applicants varied. Mandy Witte, a stay-at-home mom from Ann Arbor, said her sister is a flight attendant, and she wanted the travel vouchers to make her family's vacations less expensive. Empty nester and Sterling Heights resident Wendy Bartolomucci said she was looking for a job away from a traditional.

Morgan was in the first class of Pinnacle flight attendants. The Highland Township woman joined the company in March 2001 after completing an unpaid, three-week training session in Memphis where she studied all day and could not go home on weekends. While Pinnacle flew her to Memphis and provided her with a bed, she had to pay for her food.

In her first months on the job, Morgan was on reserve, which meant she either had to sit around the airport or home in case she was needed. Pilots and flight attendants are paid only when the airplane is moving. When out of town, they do receive a small per diem that ranges between $1.30 and $2.60 an hour when they are not flying.

Morgan remembers she brought home $1,500 monthly at first, in part because of large contributions she was making to her 401(k).

The hardest part of her job now is the "high speeds," a term used for one of the toughest flight schedules at Pinnacle. On a high speed, flight attendants take the last flight out at night, get about four hours of sleep and get back on the 6 a.m. flight for home.

"It's like a rite of passage," Morgan said. "You just do it."

Like Morgan, pilot Brent Mauntel said working at Spirit Airlines may not pay as much as the big airlines, but it has other rewards, especially when it comes to his young daughter, the Hartland man said.

Mauntel, who is based in Detroit, makes about $100,000 annually. He once dreamed of working for the Big Six, but now says he would not trade his position.

"I don't make the money I would at a major airline, but to me, money isn't everything. It's more quality of life," Mauntel said. "I'm married with a 7-year-old daughter. She likes it when Dad can get home and spend time with her. My daughter likes telling people what I do."
 
So Kit and his concubine live on 150K less and year than they did before, but since his income is still 150K and her's is probably 40-50K at least, they're still taking in about 200K per annum. Bummer about the pay cuts and furloughs, but with 200K a year they couldn't figure out how to make a car payment?

They are obviously idiots.

And Cpt. Belotti actually counted the exact number of nights he spent away from home in a year. Not only is that pretty dorky, but just what kind of job did he think he was signing up for when he wanted to be an airline pilot? That's like a governement employee bitching about too much paperwork or a long haul trucker complaining that his a$$ is sore from sitting for long, interuppted periods. Some things just go with the territory folks.
 
... So in your opinion, after 27 years on a job, it's just to be expected to be gone 4 nights a week? Has corporate flying really gotten that bad?

I do like, however, how Darby doesn't mention his side business....
 
Last edited:
CatYaaak said:
So Kit and his concubine live on 150K less and year than they did before, but since his income is still 150K and her's is probably 40-50K at least, they're still taking in about 200K per annum. Bummer about the pay cuts and furloughs, but with 200K a year they couldn't figure out how to make a car payment?

They are obviously idiots.

Take away 40% of your income, lose the retirement and tell me you don't make some changes. You're the idiot.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by CatYaaak
So Kit and his concubine live on 150K less and year than they did before, but since his income is still 150K and her's is probably 40-50K at least, they're still taking in about 200K per annum. Bummer about the pay cuts and furloughs, but with 200K a year they couldn't figure out how to make a car payment?

They are obviously idiots.




Take away 40% of your income, lose the retirement and tell me you don't make some changes. You're the idiot.
Let's not forget all the money he makes from AIRINC. Nostromo, Catyakk is right- you're doing something wrong if you can't afford car payments on $200K + what they make selling snake oil on AIRINC.
 
Huck said:
... So in your opinion, after 27 years on a job, it's just to be expected to be gone 4 nights a week? Has corporate flying really gotten that bad?

I do like, however, how Darby dosn't mention his side business....

There are as many expectation levels are there are pilots. But flying means traveling, getting paid to drive someone else's airplanes (airline of corporate) means schedules aren't set for our convenience, and the sun rises and sets regardless of where we happen to be. Same goes for any travel-related business if you are the guy actually doing the steering whether it's bus-driving, trucking, cruise-ship crewing, supplying camps via dogsled, safari guiding, or piloting the Goodyear Blimp. Like I said, it goes with the territory just like night-flying at FedEx or UPS.

Now, this guy might achieve happiness if he reduced his RON's by 12 to 180 per year, but then again he might be the kind who'll still be whining if it was reduced by 180 and he spent 12 away. If schedules in a service industry revolve around the desires, whims, and wishes of the employee up and above what's required, then it ceases to become a service.

The fact is, there are very few well-paying flying jobs where you're home every night even when times are good, and it's always been that way. If that's his priority, perhaps he should look for a different flying job or maybe open a bait shop. Of course, he might complain about the fishy smell.
 
D.sanchez said:
Let's not forget all the money he makes from AIRINC. Nostromo, Catyakk is right- you're doing something wrong if you can't afford car payments on $200K + what they make selling snake oil on AIRINC.

I got my current job at one of the seminars. I fail to see the 'snake oil' part of his scheme. There are thousands that have done the same. Pay money, shake hands with person directly responsible for job, get job offer. Am I happy I spent a few hundred dollars? Yeah, I guess I am. Does Kit overstate the condition of the industry? Optimistic, Pessimistic? Who cares, but there are valuable services he provides. Again, ask any one of the thousands who have gotten jobs at one of his seminars. Someone was cheering the 'valuable information' that another user posted about retirements at CAL. Kit provides this information about every airline. Ohh, I see, it's not valuable if you have to pay for it. Even less valuable if someone else makes money with it. Where the fuk do you fools think you live? You elect to spend the money. Don't like the product, don't buy. Think you can do better, go for it. Make a side living if you can. As we're clearly seeing in this case, you better make a side business cause your retirement IS GONE.

As for making fun of him because he's been forced to make changes in his lifestyle, I don't see the joy in that. He's in a position EVERY SINGLE ONE OF US would like to be in, in fact, you probably got into the industry to be; a major airline captain previously making untold amounts of money. You guys are running around lauding the fact that he's down. That's just it, it's not him that's down IT'S THE ENTIRE INDUSTRY! Congrats, you feel better now? How's your future look?
 
Last edited:
Nostromo said:
Take away 40% of your income, lose the retirement and tell me you don't make some changes. You're the idiot.

Sure I'd make changes, and like I said bummer about the pay cuts. However, the issue was "having to sell their car", not some larger, broad-based "changes". For someone (in this case Kit) to claim they "had to" means they were forced by coercion or necessity, and here the implication is the reduction in pay to 200K a year necessitated this action.

Anyone with an ounce of sense knows his claim of "having to" is utter bull$#%, and merely a lamo attempt to embellish. Now, they may have chosen to sell it, but that's a far cry from "had to", because everyone knows having a car is a basic necessity for most Americans that go to work unless you love biking or own a pair of pogo sticks, and we know what car payments are compared to 200K per year.

Of course, if she was driving a new Lambo and he was making 2K month car and 1K month insurance payments that go along with it, no wonder he left that little detail out when using it to gain a little more sympathy.

Of course, the car-gambit may work when the readership understands his and her plight. Maybe charitable Americans will stop payment on those Tsunami Relief checks and write new ones the to Kit Fund instead so the poor couple can at least get a used set of wheels and quit riding the train to work.
 
Nostro, nice touch, a positive slant on something on this board it is like a breath of fresh air.
 
I have mixed feelings about FAPA (if you're old school) or AIRINC. I just hate to see anyone pumping up people about this industry without balancing the information with a "dose of reality".

When I made $158k and took a pay cut to $125k, I didn't poor mouth about it. That's the business. I did poor mouth when I lost my job, however.

It is tough to generate sympathy from anyone when your paycuts take you "down" to $150k. He should have kept his mouth shut and directed the reporters to a junior FO. It would have played better.TC
 

Latest resources

Back
Top