Pinnacle upgrades

[Lear70]

CL 600Pilot is right. The need is still there. It may be a month or two but you will get there. This ability to bid captain soon after been hired and get it is incredible and should be treated with gratitude.

BULLSH*T!

No offense, but don't treat any job with "gratitude"; that kind of thinking will NOT get us a decent contract. You need to realize that you are now a professional pilot and should be treated as such, no matter what position you hire into. You respect the company and appeciate the opportunity but you expect and demand that respect right back or they will walk all over you.

You have to remember we are not hiring street captains. You come in as a First officer and bid then get awarded a captain slot if there is a vacancy.

BULLSH*T!... AGAIN.
If you get hired here and never sit a day in the first officer's seat on the line, you are a Street Captain, you will be seen as such on the line, and if you try to claim you were hired and upgraded like anyone else, you are just opening yourself up to be disrespected by those of us already here. It's not a mark of shame, no need to sugar coat it with bullsh*t.

...everyone who gets hired will get there withen a very short time, most likely before they finish training.

Not likely. First, "everyone" has to have the time. Second, there have to be enough Captain slots left for "everyone", and simple fact is that within ONE more vacancy, MAYBE two, we will have all the Captains we need for current deliveries. If you haven't started class here by the middle of March, you are rolling some BIG dice on upgrade with our current delivery schedule and could find yourself sitting right seat for a LONG time.

So everyone who wants to come here hang in there and show some humility and you shall share the dream

Oh my God... step away from the computer, and for the love of God, don't say anything even REMOTELY similar in the crew room - you will probably get the crap beat out of you in the smoke hole or, in DTW, possibly shot - we're kind of millitant like that up here.

Additionally, please do not spread "rumor" as "fact"; people reading this may make major life / career decisions based on information you put out there and if it's incorrect, you can do more harm than good. Even I put disclaimers on my posts about likelihood of hiring and upgrades and so does anyone else with any experience here, simply because things change pretty fast; one day we're hiring, the next we're furloughing.

Welcome to the airline business my BE90 flying friend.

 

[Nostromo]

I love reading your craap Lear, you are one bitter dude. You been rejected at the majors or something?

 

[fly4ever]

Actually, Lear70 is one of the few 9E voices on this board with a lot of common sense.

It's not bitterness you hear, it's an effort to educate the large portion of the 9E pilot group that is young and/or inexperienced and hasn't been faced with a contract fight yet. XJ pilots will gladly back the 9E guys/gals that are willing to fight for a better contract for their future.

Don't think for a minute that life is going to be sweet if you get hired as a street captain anywhere when you're on the back side of a growth spurt. Life at any regional as a first or new job can be exciting at first but after the new guy shine wears off you'll find that life can suck when reserve stretches out, work rules are next to non-existant, and pay sucks.

9E people better listen and learn from those of your own pilot list and other companies that have experience with contract issues, it's your only hope of some level of success in your upcoming battle.

Willing to walk with you,

Fly

 

[Lear70]

Willing to walk with you,

Fly

Thanks... might just take you up on that some day in the (hopefully near) future.

Actually Nostromo, yeah, I WAS turned down by a major... just last July actually. MAJOR bummer, but I was this millitant about Pinnacle before all that.

They can only treat their employees SO badly before morale degrades to the point no one wants to even SMELL the company kool-aid, much less take a swig.

Like Fly said, just trying to edumacate some people on the realities of this company and this career in general; sorry if it comes across as "bitter" to you.

Good luck to you.

 

[SkyBoy1981]

I'm a new hire at a regional, and I agree with Lear70's post entirely. Its not about being bitter, its about preserving whats left of our profession. If you are "living the dream" and "love to fly" thats fine, but if you're going to take a job as a professional, you have to insist on being treated like one.

 

[Speedbird34]

Lear 70 with all due respect to your achievements as a pilot and with gratitude to you for taking time out to enlighten me. I would also want you to note that by making statements which are not !00% fact you could discourage a lot of good people from coming to work here.
Things may not always work out as planned but when did been optomistic become a pilot defect. I just feel people should show some respect to those who provide you work to feed your family. I am also 100% behind the union's effort for better work rules etc. But I do not do the negotiating.
As regards my expereince as a piot all I can say is I do not need to parade my type ratings on this site to tell you what level of training I have had. If you can offer me employment then maybe I will let you look at my resume.

 

[Lear70]

Lear 70 with all due respect to your achievements as a pilot and with gratitude to you for taking time out to enlighten me.

Sorry man, your post just rubbed me the wrong way after being treated like sh*t 90% of the time at this company the last several years... Probably did get a little worked up, my apologies for the vehemence of my reply.

I would also want you to note that by making statements which are not !00% fact you could discourage a lot of good people from coming to work here.

True, but NONE of us have 100% fact about hiring plans, and I'd rather someone didn't come here and stay somewhere they can pay the bills than make the jump and get stuck here as an F/O for many, many years when comments on this board made them expect a street CA slot - that kind of disappointment lingers with a person. H*ll, I'm one of the FEW who have always encouraged people to come here, while simultaneously warning them of the dangers of coming in, ESPECIALLY as a street captain. Do a history of all my posts regarding PCL, you'll see I'm mostly fair, balanced, and usually correct about hiring trends - I have my sources too.

Things may not always work out as planned but when did been optomistic become a pilot defect. I just feel people should show some respect to those who provide you work to feed your family.

You're absolutley right, optimism has a place and I'm very optimistic about the future of our company and the possibilities a new contract may afford. At the same time, I again emphasize the fact that I DID say to be respectful (read my post to you again, I think I used that exact word), and we should all do our job 100%, regardless of whether we like our employer or not, but gratitude is definitely the wrong emotion, except to God for giving us the skills and opportunity.

I am also 100% behind the union's effort for better work rules etc. But I do not do the negotiating.

True, but think on this: WE ALL DO THE RATIFICATION! We may not negotiate the contract, but we have member ratification and, by God, we need to use it wisely. If the contract isn't a true INDUSTRY as well as company improvement, it needs to be sent back. Period. WE DO HAVE THAT POWER AND THE PILOTS HERE NEED TO START THINKING LIKE IT!

As regards my expereince as a piot all I can say is I do not need to parade my type ratings on this site to tell you what level of training I have had. If you can offer me employment then maybe I will let you look at my resume.

Touche'. But since you DID list your experience, I chose to highlight it so that others could decide who best to listen to. Sometimes experience IS the best teacher, and I'm still learning - our Check Airmen are fantastic incidentally, and we have some VERY experienced guys and gals here that I still learn new stuff from on our company message board - it's a great way to discuss and learn!

You've got some good experience in that B99, and I'm certain you're an asset to any flight crew (I wish ALL our new-hires could be so experienced), and all of us are still learning, even the furloughed NW guys who are here at PCL and post on this board (if they had spoken up I probably wouldn't have posted at all - they're usually more eloquent and subtle about making points than I am - something I strive towards).

But the simple fact is that people do some of their job research on this board; sometimes it can be a great resource, sometimes it's a little slanted against reality. I just try to "keep it real", and the atmosphere on the line I think is tilted a little more in the direction I was going than the one you were. My opinion, for what it's worth.

Have a great week!

 

[dondk]

I am with Lear70 on being honest even if it hurts.. He has some good info and crunches the numbers like the rest of us. We have nothing to gain by being upfront and telling you what the opinions of the pilot group are versus the nonconnah kool aid. Although it really is fun to hear about some of the stuff the make up on nonconnah.

About 2 years ago we had a few of our guys on this very board telling people about fast upgrades (less than 8 months) when the truth was it was taking years. Some people bought the line of crap from nonconnah and this board. They came over and became disgruntled, took it out on fellow pilots and then eventually moved on all the more pi$$ed off at the world.

Bottom line.. we are still short pilots.. probably through the summer before we balance things out. How many more are we hiring? who knows, it depends on which staffing model they are using today! There will be 3-4 more CA vacancies, the question though is how many on the vacancy, I have heard at least 8 per vacancy.

Regardless of seat now, your looking on the CA side of no more than 10 days off and reserve. As an FO you may get off of reserve but doubtfully more than 11 or 12 days off.

Funny comment to this.. I called planning because I needed to drop 2 legs this upcoming weekend. I was told they were negative captains in DTW, they have been for the past week and they will not balance out until the 28th.
The planner was even bitchin to me how the staffing sucks and they cannot plan to save their lives.

 

[Rook]

Yeah Lear 70 is a good guy he just pretends to be an A** During G/S he was one of 3 street CA's in class. All former Boeing PIC's that for one reason or another (furlough/family)chose to come over to Express/pncl. He's usually dead on with company issues and doesn't sugar coat anything, so what he's saying is dead on. C'mon over as a street captain. Hope you enjoy reserve. RRRRRRNNNNG...hi got a junior man assignment/extension for ya will be heard on a regular basis. But if you got the time then you're qualified for the position end of story.

Rook

 

[PeanuckleCRJ]

New vacancy just came out...

Only 1 slot respectively in DTW and MSP... 4 slots in MEM.


There are alot of improvements that need to be made in the next contract... and management needs to realize that not treating their pilot group like crap has its benefits. FO's should not be paid less than 30,000 a year first year... We fly legs commensurate to NW DC-9's and alot of airbus runs...while flying 100 hours a month and right against 30 in 7 and 1000 hours a year.

 

[Speedbird34]

Hi Lear,
Thanks for your very sincere response. I have heard nothing but good things about you from everyone here and elsewhere.
Your last post was right on the money. We all hope for a great future!
Hope you have a great week.

 

[Lear70]

Something to think about, and I know this is a bit of the pot calling the kettle black, but with the upgrades dying down, the senior CA's need to stop base hopping so that they can't reduce the number of vacancies by not awarding secondaries.

The contract reads that once a vacancy comes out, it cannot be reduced in numbers. Guys like me who have "played the system" for the last year and base hopped every other month for cash need to stop doing it and I have - I'm now in DTW for three months then MEM permanently (yeah, I know, but the lines work better for my commute).

This way, when a vacancy comes out, a CA doesn't "take it" and give the company the opportunity to decide they didn't need that many Captains and not award a "secondary" which would upgrade someone. Hasn't been a problem when we needed 10 new CA's a month, but it will play a big part now that the vacancies are dwindling.

Food for thought...

 

[DoinTime]

The contract reads that once a vacancy comes out, it cannot be reduced in numbers.

Any vacancy can be amended or canceled prior to the effective date. The reason the company posts a vacancy of one position is so they can amend that number if staffing levels dictate. If they don't put down at least one vacancy they cannot add that position.

 

[Looking]

What happened to the shortage of Captains at 9E?
What does this mean for those of us with upcomming interviews and
have been through this game but has been furloughed once or twice and was hoping for that 6 year Capt. reserve plan?

Is NJ a better option anyway now?
And off course we are looking for "guarantied" replies here. ;-)

I'm still looking.

 

[Lear70]

It's my understanding that the vacancy can be amended "larger" or yes, cancelled, prior to the effective date, but I'm pretty certain it can't be "reduced" in numbers. I don't have the contract right in front of me but I went through this with WG a while back and I'm pretty sure I have it right. Will look again today and post later.

Netjets instead of here? Think they'll get a contract anytime this decade? Fractional certainly was a lot of fun, but a lot of work too and upgrades aren't looking like they'll happen within 3 to 5 years there either... Better pay (barely) though as an F/O. Probably better days off too.

I still think that if you aren't sitting in class by late March you're going to be scraping the bottom of the barrel to make CA. That single vacancy thing is a fluke, we should see at least one, MAYBE two more with 15-20 on it before it thins out, but it won't be long now... My opinion of course, given how many CA's we have now, how many are scheduled for training, and how many we'll need given their current "staffing ratio" (which is built on block hours, not crews per aircraft, but we have speculated where the crew per aircraft number is based on past history).