Pinnacle Questions

[smokey999]

Let's see if I'm following:
About 1200 pilots by mid 2005.
CA's starting about the mid 600's.
Newhire would be in the mid 800's.
So a newhire today would still have about 200 spots to go on the list(once deliveries stop in 2005)
So the question would be how much attrition at the top?
And if Big brother did give PCL another 50 planes after the contract is signed, that would put the newhire in position for Ca slot. It seems upgrade times still could be in the 2-4 range, where as at Eagle, Comair, Horizon, Mesaba, and Horizon, you're probably at 5+. Just my opinion!

 

[dondk]

Let's see if I'm following:
About 1200 pilots by mid 2005.
CA's starting about the mid 600's.
Newhire would be in the mid 800's.
So a newhire today would still have about 200 spots to go on the list(once deliveries stop in 2005)
So the question would be how much attrition at the top?
And if Big brother did give PCL another 50 planes after the contract is signed, that would put the newhire in position for Ca slot. It seems upgrade times still could be in the 2-4 range, where as at Eagle, Comair, Horizon, Mesaba, and Horizon, you're probably at 5+. Just my opinion!

The "magic" number when the music stops has been 1300 for about 3 years now. The music "should" stop early '05.

Captains I agree with Lear70 may break 600 but that will only be because some GIA people would not have the time.

As for a new hire today... moving up the list would be difficult because of the groups of GIA people mixed into the list, as they gain the time (and some have been here 2 years now) they will eventually move into the left seat.

Attrition.. there is "SOME" movement, a few have class dates with SWA and FedEx and ATA, others are phase II with JB. How many in attrrition numbers? I'd take a swing at maybe 5% of our current staff and that would probably be on the high side...

If Big brother gave is more... there is enough of us who think we will get a few more, probably top out at 150 jets and that would be all for us. So if we got those extra 21 jets, it would only be about 80 Captains, of which most would be filled by those passed over because of not having the time by '05.

Many of have been saying for a while now that our HR is passing out the company cool-aid to the new hires telling them they would upgrade in 3years... Guys upgrading TODAY have just about 3 years with the company and we only have 45 more jets to go...

Personally, I see 4 or better for those hired today and that is assuming it would take 3 years to get all of the furloughee's off of the street.

 

[Aileron2020]

Little off topic, but...

What is the jr. base? How long on reserve at the different bases? How long to upgrade at different bases?

Thx,
-A

 

[dondk]

Little off topic, but...

What is the jr. base? How long on reserve at the different bases? How long to upgrade at different bases?

Thx,
-A

Junior bases change month to month, although most new hires are assigned MSP or DTW lately.. I would call it a tie for now.

Reserve at the bases... again it changes, MEM is going long, DTW and MSP are going short. Best guess would be 4-6 months but that does hinge on growth by the base. I would expect by the end of this year it will start to climb significantly.

Upgrade per base... It is company wide and is in the 2- 2 1/2 year range right now. There are plently of FO's in each base that have the time and seniority to upgrade. I

 

[Aileron2020]

I am assuming that senority is based on age within a class?

-A

 

[Lear70]

Yup. Seniority as determined for bidding purposes within the pilot group is the day you start class. Seniority for pay purposes, longevity pay increases, 401k and benefits, etc is the day you finish your checkride. Convenient they get to short you 8-10 weeks of pay raises every year.

 

[727RedTails]

Actually, the ratio is in the 4.4 - 4.5 range Captains per a/c. NWA just asked Pinnacle to fly 5000 more hours per month then the already higher numbers so that may affect the staffing numbers as well.

 

[Lear70]

Actually, the ratio is in the 4.4 - 4.5 range Captains per a/c. NWA just asked Pinnacle to fly 5000 more hours per month then the already higher numbers so that may affect the staffing numbers as well.

That's incorrect. If you take the total number of pilots (around 800) and divide by the total number of aircraft (84), you come up with 9.52 pilots, divided by two is 4.76 crews, which SEEMS like a normal ratio, but you have to remember how many of those pilots are F/O's - about 60% of them, which yields around 3.85 Captains per aircraft. Since you can't have a "crew" without a Captain, this is our true staffing ratio, with the extra F/O's there to let us ramp up the upgrades if we have to.

In DTW and MSP this month, the staffing ratio is actually closer to 3.4 Captains per aircraft and I believe there's only 4 DTW F/O's on reserve when there should be around 20 according to Tony Trites. MSP isn't much better, MEM is pretty good for now but will be tight again when they ramp up ops later this month and April. That's why most DTW reserve Captains have already been extended or Junior Assigned twice in the first week of this month, including now for me - on my way to YOW in a few...

 

[DTWFO]

Incedentally, most of the people here don't care and would take no growth for a decent pay raise, work rules, scope clause, and improved 401k, but that's just from the crew room discussions...

This is absolutely true!! I'm not going to vote for any contract that doesn't include page after page of definitions of any kind of ambiguous language used in the contract, along with rules about how the company can interpret that language. With examples of each scenario. And I'm not the only one. This company has beat us down time after time, stabbed us in the back, taken back promises and made our lives hell (can you say crew bags) so much that they will have a real fight on their hands come contract time. I would rather see Pinnacle management out on the streets than continue with the conditions we have now! Even though I wouldn't have a job either, the thought of them not having one either brings a smile to my face.

 

[TedCFII]

It's the whole Memphis thing; there are a lot of redneck hillbillies there - both pilots and management.

You got something against redneck hillbillies?

 

[Lear70]

You betcha I do... something I can RUB against them! Can you say "Deliverance"? I knew you could! You got sum real purdy lips there boy!

News flash for those interested:

Vacancy 03-02 closed with Captain awards to d*mn near the 500 seniority mark and the alternates (20) closed at 555!!

Can you believe that shiznit? There must be a LOT more people hired who don't meet the upgrade requirements than we originally thought. If that trend continues and we upgrade 20 Captains per month through the end of the year (Aug - Dec) and only a third can upgrade, we're going to be dangerously close to hiring street Captains again and people hired this month could find themselves upgrading in 6 - 8 months.

Wild stuff... would be really interesting if we could create a system preference bid on our private website and get everyone to input their bids and hours, we could really track how many people have the time to upgrade, who will, and to what bases... Wait a second, I forgot, the company doesn't want us to know that.

And yes, I can say crew bag, as in one of the ramp flunkies broke one of the zippers off my bag today. Think I'll get reimbursed on my expense report?

 

[blade230]

Most off the street hires I have heard of are all in the 1500 hour range, that means at LEAST almost 2 years or better untill they will have the 3000 hour minimum required for upgrade.

 

[JJJ]

The most junior upgrade on this award was hired Aug 02. 1 year, 7 months. And to think some people thought that 2.5 years was as low as it would go.

The NWA furloughees are starting around 565. I'm not sure how many there are, but they all have the time. Does anyone know how many Gulfstreamers there are? The first ones that came have the seniority to upgrade, but lack the time.

It will be real interesting to see how low it will go in the coming months.

 

[crocodile]

Are there provisions, such as time in type, that allow for a reduction of the 3000TT required for upgrade?

 

[blade230]

3000 TT is a reduction from the 3500 TT required.