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Pinnacle in the next year ?

  • Thread starter Thread starter SennaP1
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Is it at all remotely possible that 9E management may see the benifit of quick contract talks and make an excellent offer right away? I may be naive here, but XJ's management dropped the ball, all that time fighting for a few cents here, few cents there, while NW is sawing away giving 9E all the growth. If the contract goes well(again, possible ignorance on my part) I would think 9E doesn't miss a beat and gets all of the future orders, and as for XJ, who knows, maybe seaching for more code partners?
 
smokey999 said:
Is it at all remotely possible that 9E management may see the benifit of quick contract talks and make an excellent offer right away?

That's a good one. :D I know nothing about 9E or XJ's management, but has ANY airline ever made an "excellent" offer right off the bat?
 
First, the contract is not amendable for well over another year (May '05). The openers will be six months prior to that (November) according to our negotiating committee who are hard at work preparing for that, but we won't see anything in negotiations until probably a year and change from now. Since we get our 129th aircraft sometime in either Dec '04 or Jan '05, that would leave us with several months of "status quo" operations as far as fleet growth goes.

All of the following is speculation, which is all that any of us can do, but what makes more sense from NWA's management (disclaimer - they never have made sense before, but why let that stop us from applying intelligence where none seems to exist?):

Situation 1: NW gives all the next batch of RJ's to Mesaba. We realize that we're done getting new airplanes and will not be growing. There is zero fleet growth and everyone is stuck where they are; do you think that would make pilots eager to sign for whatever they offer in exchange for growth or do you think it would drive home the issue of how badly we need protection in the form of pay and Quality Of Life issues?

Situation 2: NW gives us part of the next batch of RJ's that keeps us growing right up to the beginning of negotiations, then they walk into the room and say, "Here's the deal: take your current contract, add 2% to the 401k, add 3% per year cost of living increases to the salaries across the board, keep the rest of it the way it is and we guarantee you will keep getting RJ's". Now you've got the top 25% of the seniority group getting to keep their 14 days off and the rest of the QOL stays the same with no risk of strike, the bottom 25% of the seniority group gets guaranteed to upgrade in 2 - 3 years which they will need to build the upgrade minimum times anyway, and at least some of the middle 50% don't want to risk prolonged negotiations because they just know Southwest is calling in the next year anyway. ;) That puts the vote near the 60% mark...

That last scenario is my biggest fear and why I think NW won't be foolish enough to start the Whipsaw TOO early... Leave that dangling carrot out there until it's fight time, then start snatching it just out of reach. My .02 cents for what it's worth...

As far as our mangement offering a decent contract right off the bat? Don't count on it. And please, don't take that as me being rude, this management group has proven time and time again that they don't really care for pilots and consider us a dime a dozen. Our senior management has directly said that they consider our job "easy" and that we are "some of the best paid pilots in the industry". In our last quarter's financial statement, our CEO said that "We will pay our employees industry average wages, but demand our employees work harder than the industry average." Does that sound like a management group that is ready to recognize the work that we put into the airline? :eek:

Now many of you may understand why we refer to our airline as "Pitiful Airlines" or "Cynical Airlines"... That's also why I said that as long as you can come to work, do your job, have a great time with your coworkers who are indeed some great people, and just go home without getting caught up in the company Pravda, this is a pretty decent place to work.
 
I agree with Lear70 on senario #2...

We are "guaranteed" 129 jet's, NWA.. despite beliefs by other's that will not be any less.

The only way they can "reduce" our fleet is "if" we go on strike. To reduce for something other than a strike would have to show good cause to the SEC and to the investors. The IPO was written stating 129 aircraft, growth and all the other stuff to get someone to buy our stock. To give us less could be construed so many ways I doubt NW would want to get into that battle.

When the last jet arrives we will have about 80% of our pilot group able to vote. Of that 80% most will have 2+ years being abused by our weak contract. I seriously doubt our management and their Memphis Kool Aid can or will be able to convince the pilot group to anything less than an outstanding contract with many changes that will drive up the cost and lower thier bonus's.

The only way I see some of our pilot group agreeing to less is the promise of growth and additional jet's. No more growth, no more jet's.. no reason to take a "lesser" contract.

Even if the take away some of our 129.. let's be real.. it would affect those 20% who could not vote anyway and piss off the junior pilots who know they are not going anywhere for a few years. More incentive to dig in and fight for a decent contract.
 
But hey, our job is too easy for mgmt to acknowledge us, so... don't ask for a medal or a pad on the back

Does that sound like a management group that is ready to recognize the work that we put into the airline

Didn't you guys get your bling bling gold plated key chain?



NWA has options for 175 additional CRJ's. I think we will get at least 1 more. I wouldn't be suprised either if some of them went to another carrier.

If you look at the original delivery schedule, which had the last delivery at the end of '05 and compare it to the current schedule, with the last delivery at the end of this year or beginning of next year, you can see that NWA wants as many RJ's and as soon as possible.

Assuming tha NWA wants the deliveries to continue the stream of RJ's next year, they need to announce a decision soon. The longer they wait to make a decision, the odds increase that they will either be flown by Pinnacle or another carrier that currently operates CRJ's. Mesaba does not have a CRJ program, and would take time to establish. This is not to say that Mesaba will not get RJ's in the future, because I think that they will.

The current rumor is that 30 additional CRJ's are on the way to Pinnacle for a total of 159. But take it with a grain of salt..... it wasn't from a "senior captain" :)

As far as negotiations, with few exceptions (ie Comair) regional pilots don't go on strike and vote yes on the first TA the comes their way. Prediction for Pinnacle.... Yes on TA #1, or I'll eat my hat, if I had one.
 
I know it means nothing.. but if you do a registration search...

Pinnacle/NWAirlink has 49 more tail numbers reserved. They all fall in line with our current scheme of tail numbers.

If any of that has ANY validity at all (and I doubt it does).. that would bring us to about 140 jets total.

Who knows.. definately not us pilots and surely not our management either!!!!
 
dondk said:
The only way they can "reduce" our fleet is "if" we go on strike. To reduce for something other than a strike would have to show good cause to the SEC and to the investors. The IPO was written stating 129 aircraft, growth and all the other stuff to get someone to buy our stock. To give us less could be construed so many ways I doubt NW would want to get into that battle.

I agree that it would be difficult (possibly stupid) for NWA to break this agreement, but they have done dumber things.

Like you said, 9E is "guaranteed" 129 jets per the IPO and the Airlink agreement. But if NWA wants to fire up the whipsaw, they can sick their lawyers on that deal and do whatever they want. I'm not saying I want that to happen by any means. I just wouldn't be surprised.

I have the feeling NWA's pilot negotiations for concessions... errr... "investment opportunities" includes some scope relief language. If XJ gets CRJ's, it won't be a permanent third fleet type. The XJ CEO already said it's not practical to run 3 types longer than necessary. The CRJ can go almost everywhere the Saab can and those places that it can't will either have to make runway changes or probably lose service.

NWA seems to want to get the hell out of regional service and make their feeder airlines fly supplemental service. Since when was Minneapolis to Pensacola a regional route???

One thing is for sure: The next 12 months are going to get very interesting in the NWA family.

Good luck to Pinnacle!
 
If XJ gets CRJ's, it won't be a permanent third fleet type. The XJ CEO already said it's not practical to run 3 types longer than necessary. The CRJ can go almost everywhere the Saab can and those places that it can't will either have to make runway changes or probably lose service.

True, the CRJ can get into most places the Saab goes, but they may not be able to support the loads. If they can't, there is no reason XJ could not bring in BigSky Metros to run those routes.
 
Have you ever seen those Metros? A Big Sky pilot told me a couple of weeks ago that they are having trouble keeping them airworthy. Seems the FAA is grounding some of them almost daily for fuel leaks.
 
Let the ass whoopin begin! 9E is full of pilots who bought their way in and they will cave and sell out the industry at the 1st sign that their crappy job is on the line. 9E sold out before and they will soon sell out again. The only difference is they wont be rewarded this time. Enjoy the growth while it lasts. 129 and thats it.
 
Ignorance is right, Lequip, you obviously have NO idea of the history of Express/Pinnacle Airlines. Enjoy your bliss!
 
Come on, you have to try harder than that. Your first post, and it's a flame. Go back to your MSFS.
 

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