Pension troubles for Delta and Northwest

[SWAnnabee]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/usatoday/20050608/ts_usatoday/airlineswarnofpensionproblems

 

[Birdstrike]

This seems reasonable considering the alternatives; why wouldn't Congress agree to change the law allowing the legacy carriers to adopt the 25 year provision.

What are the arguments opposing this plan?

 

[General Lee]

Grinstein said it best when he said this wouldn't be a subsidy. An analogy to this is paying off a mortgage (by yourself) with a 30 year fixed mortgage, rather than a 4 year arm. Otherwise, every legacy will file Chap 11 (and not go away like some would like---we would look more attractive to investors without a pension problem over our heads) and then dump the pensions on the Gov't, which will swamp the PBGC and tax payers will then foot the bill. Remember, current employees (like me) won't have a pension, and have already given that up. I am sure our management and others wouldn't mind dumping the pensions, but legislation like this will make them continue to pay for it, but over a longer time period.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[michael707767]

This seems reasonable considering the alternatives; why wouldn't Congress agree to change the law allowing the legacy carriers to adopt the 25 year provision.

why wouldn't they change the law to allow a 25 year payment? The other option is bankruptcy and the employees lose the pension altogether. Is that somehow better?

 

[General Lee]

why wouldn't they change the law to allow a 25 year payment? The other option is bankruptcy and the employees lose the pension altogether. Is that somehow better?

The current employees have pretty much already lost their own pensions. We are talking about the already retired people I believe. I am sure DL would love to dump the whole thing alltogether, but extending the payments out still makes them eventually pay it off. It is better than nothing.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[michael707767]

The current employees have pretty much already lost their own pensions. We are talking about the already retired people I believe. I am sure DL would love to dump the whole thing alltogether, but extending the payments out still makes them eventually pay it off. It is better than nothing.

Gen,
thats my point. I fail to see why congress would object to extending the payments. They are not letting the companies out of anything, just increasing the time. I would rather my company get more time to make me whole than the have them go BK and take away the pension altogether. Call me crazy.
Michael

 

[~~~^~~~]

The current employees have pretty much already lost their own pensions. We are talking about the already retired people I believe.

Bye Bye--General Lee

General: No, the current retirees are relatively safe, that is why they take the cash out option & Delta has to pay $600,000,000.00 to allow 500 pilots to retire early. Wasn't the number $1.3 million additional per pilot last year? We are talking about your retirement and the fact that Delta & ALPA negotiated a contract Delta could not afford.

As far as I am concerned, Delta and ALPA are the two parties to this agreement and whatever they work out should stand. If ALPA wants to let Delta did a hole for 100 years, why not? Regardless, there is no reason why my income should be taxed to provide for those who earn three to seven times my income for the same work.

I save more than 25% of my income and get no retirement. If Delta goes bankrupt, I don't care. But it chaps my little white butt to hear all the moaning by guys who trade in their european sports sedan airport cars before they turn over 30,000 miles. You guys pass my 200,000 mile 96 Ford like two 777's doing a head on pass at FL410.

Greed goes round....

And let me get off topic. Why is Delta's Chief whining to the Feds while Delta spends a few million promoting Gay Pride month? Why is this Delta's major marketing push? If we are going to market our airline - why not promote something that most of our customers relate to? We happen to live in the Bible Belt and regardless of your beliefs you have to know that spending millions to promote alternative lifestyles is going to anger more people than it is going to impress.

It is all Delta's typical arrogance. They can waste millions, because they hav millions to waste??? This company deserves what it gets.

~~~^~~~

 

[michael707767]

General: No, the current retirees are relatively safe, that is why they take the cash out option & Delta has to pay $600,000,000.00 to allow 500 pilots to retire early. Wasn't the number $1.3 million additional per pilot last year?

actually, you are only partly correct. Pilots retiring can only get half of their retirement in the lump sum. That still leaves a large amount out there that Delta is obligated to pay. Current retirees are not totally safe.

And by the way, the vast majority of the guys going early now are well below 1.3 million on the lump sum. Still getting a good deal, but no where near that amount.

No matter what, it doesn't change things. Current laws do not allow Delta and ALPA to renegotiate an affordable pension. Its either fund it or go BK and terminate. I think in addition to changing the funding requirements, we should be allowed to negotiate an affordable pension. I would sure rather negotiate it down some than lose altogether.

oh and I agree with you on funding gay pride parades. Give me a break

 

[~~~^~~~]

Michael:

Good post - you are exactly right.

Any chance Delta could raid the funds being used to promote Gay Pride and channel that money towards obligations it has made to its current employees?

 

[michael707767]

Michael:
Any chance Delta could raid the funds being used to promote Gay Pride and channel that money towards obligations it has made to its current employees?

Delta never ceases to amaze me on the crap they think is a good idea to support. I don't get it.