Operating a GV

[Hugh Johnson]

Possibly adding GV to operation. Anyone got rough basic operating costs? Realistic range, not advertised range, runway requirements,etc. We would go domestic out of 5500 feet and international out of 9000. Thanks.

 

[AA717driver]

Hugh--The runway requirements are reasonable. 5500 is a little short for me but I'm a chicken.

As for range, we've found it saves time to blast half way to Beijing or BKK at M.85, stop in Japan for fuel then blast the rest of the way to the destination. It saves about an hour even with the stop. It also extends the lives of the pilots because we're not sweating the gas at the end.

We did Turkey to IND this summer at M.83 without breaking a sweat. The time enroute was 11:10.

Good luck, hope you get one.TC

 

[G550Driver]

Hugh,

We take our G550 into airfields such as TEX (teluride, 9078FE, 6870 RWY), HTO (East Hampton, 4255 RWY), CRQ (Carlsbad,4897) all the time with no problems. Of course we only go in under day VFR and Dry RWY conditions. GVs are always at these locations so we know it's not just us.

Long legs I've flown are:

SLC-LJMK(Mykonos, Greece) 40,000lbs fuel, .85, 11+36 (step climb, started at FL410 up to FL450)

GCLP (Grande Canaries)-SAEZ (Buenos Aires), 40,000lbs, .85, 11+45, same profile.

SAEZ-EWR, 40,000, .85, 12+10

From CRQ (4897 RWY) we fly to EWR all the time with no problems what so ever.

 

[FL510GV]

We operated a GV out of 5400 feet near Brussels and could always make Wash DC wet runway, even in the winter. Can't go much further on that short of runway...

 

[CaptSeth]

OK, I'm impressed. Do you guys take a relief pilot on those long flights? Under 121, I have an eight hour limitation on my a$$ at a duty station - which is why we have an IRO.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

we will do up to 14 hrs max w/o a relief pilot (my personal longest leg has been 12.8 hrs.)

I dont find the long legs nearly as hard as the multiple stop / FBO wait type day. A Tokyo - Wash DC type day is easier to me than a TEB-MDW-PBI with 3 hrs in between legs.

The relief pilot concept is controversial. Some ask - whats the difference between 2 tired guys and 3 tired guy? Also, pre-positioning crews is frequently the only way to get the job done...but then that means airlining all over the world (rack up amex points I suppose...)

These longer range bizjets do have crew rest areas, but I myself dont find them very comfy...Id rather sit up front or hang out in the back...

 

[GVFlyer]

In the G550 operating out of a 5500 foot runway on a standard day, in still air, with NBAA reserves, you will be able to fly:

6,150 nm @ M 0.80

5,750 nm @ M 0.85

Using a 5930 foot runway you can fly:

6,750 nm @ M 0.80

6,000 nm @ M 0.85

5,000 nm @ M 0.87

Some of the flights I've made in the GV/G550 include:

Hawaii to Singapore

New York to Tokyo

Tokyo to New York

Buenos Aires to Vienna

Miami to Windhoek

Sydney to San Francisco

Moscow to Darwin

Brisbane to Los Angeles


The G550 flys 250 nautical miles farther than the GV.


Our flight department follows the Flight Safety Foundation guidelines. When we are scheduled for a leg greater than 12 hours we carry a third pilot. We rotate a pilot into the crew rest area every two hours giving us a 4 on - 2 off schedule which is safely maintainable for extended flights.

GV

 

[ultrarunner]

Does the GV/derivatives have auto brakes and auto land?

That was great stuff in a previous life. Has if finally trickled down to planes like what we're talking here?

 

[Gulfstream 200]

Does the GV/derivatives have auto brakes and auto land?

That was great stuff in a previous life. Has if finally trickled down to planes like what we're talking here?

 

[ultrarunner]

Confused?? I was just asking. Having flown aircraft in the past with both these systems, I was wondering if the latest and greatest offerings from Gulfstream had these systems. I'm not familiar with their products.

I was thinking that after the monster long legs this beast has, that auto land and auto brakes would be pretty darn nice..esp in crappy wx.

 

[G550Driver]

Our two G550s have a crew rest area that you can make into a bed. We are Part 91 so we don't really have a written policy on long flights, we just use common sense.

We did SLC to UUWW recently. We took 3 pilots and when we got to Moscow we all went out and explored. We all got 4 hours in the rack and felt fine.

 

[AA717driver]

Ultrarunner--No autobrakes. I only used the ones on the 757 at SNA and only on 1 or 2 just to get the braking started. The CAT III capability will come from the EVS/FLIR. HUD with FLIR presentation superimposed on it. Pretty cool.

Autoland is too expensive to maintain.

On the subject of IRO's--We are supposed to have one over 10.5 hours. We have gone 11 without one. One of our 550's has a crew rest area and the other one doesn't.TC

 

[ultrarunner]

I didn't use 'em much in my airline days either...maybe DCA with nasty wind and contaminated runways.

EVS and FLIR for the autoland sounds good. Still hand-flow I take it? Hmmm....but at least you can see. That in itself should take the edge off. Autoland when you can't see is a spooky thing.

 

[GVFlyer]

Does the GV/derivatives have auto brakes and auto land?

That was great stuff in a previous life. Has if finally trickled down to planes like what we're talking here?

The feature set on the GV/G550 was determined to a large extent by the Customer Advisory Board. While Autoland/Autobraking are reasonably low tech (as compared to say, EVS) and easy to apply to the jet, the customers didn't want them. As a matter of fact most customers don't want to do the extra training and maintenance required to maintain CAT II standards. In any event, EVS has made Cat II redundant.

GV

 

[G4G5]

Does anyone know where the FAA currently stands on allowing lower mins with the Hud and Evs?

 

[fokkerjet]

Our flight department follows the Flight Safety Foundation guidelines. When we are scheduled for a leg greater than 12 hours we carry a third pilot. We rotate a pilot into the crew rest area every two hours giving us a 4 on - 2 off schedule which is safely maintainable for extended flights.

GV

Does anyone include their Flight Attendants into the "crew rest" scheduling? If so, how do you rotate them through the crew rest area, or do you sit them in back with the passengers? F/A's , at least ours, don't hang out in the back with the passengers, so most of the time they don't really have any "scheduled" rest on the longhaul flights.

Our GV's have forward galleys......something that I wouldn't recommend if you have any say in the matter.

 

[Valkyrie]

See Part 91.175 (l) Approach to straight-in landing operations below DH, or MDA using an enhanced flight vision system (EFVS).

In the news:
http://www.ainonline.com/issues/02_04/02_04_rulingallowsp1.html

 

[Gulfstream 200]

Confused?? I was just asking. Having flown aircraft in the past with both these systems, I was wondering if the latest and greatest offerings from Gulfstream had these systems. I'm not familiar with their products.

I was thinking that after the monster long legs this beast has, that auto land and auto brakes would be pretty darn nice..esp in crappy wx.

Yes, autobrakes are standard. Dont need them often, short fields when its snowy or wet..as you know..

Most have the options of HUDS and/or EVS. Many opt not to install them due to the mx, weight, and the need to go to school more to maintain currency (no thanks!)..

 

[GVFlyer]

Does anyone know where the FAA currently stands on allowing lower mins with the Hud and Evs?

Yes, after having to go the AFS 1 (Wash. DC) level at the FAA, Gulfstream was able to negotiate new rules making for FAR 91.175. Transport category proponency is in the FAA's Northwest Region (go figure) and those boys haven't understood any advances in avionics since VOR's and ADF's replaced Airway Beacons and Radio Ranges.

Fundamentaly, the new rule says that if you can see the runway environment at the published minimums by using the FLIR EVS image, you can continue to a height of 100 feet, after that you have to use “natural vision” for landing. EVS can be used during Cat I ILS approaches, and using "enhanced flight visibility,” for straight-in nonprecision approaches.

Thales is planning to certify their version of enhanced vision for use on the Bombardier Global Express in the first quarter 2005. Once this system is installed these rules will apply to the Global Express as well.


GV







.

 

[GVFlyer]

Does anyone include their Flight Attendants into the "crew rest" scheduling? If so, how do you rotate them through the crew rest area, or do you sit them in back with the passengers? F/A's , at least ours, don't hang out in the back with the passengers, so most of the time they don't really have any "scheduled" rest on the longhaul flights.

Our GV's have forward galleys......something that I wouldn't recommend if you have any say in the matter.

We sometimes carry two flight attendants to allow for their crew rest, but they must accomplish it in the cabin as the crew rest area is continously occupied by a pilot. Some of the more chivalrous pilots will do their two hours off on the jump seat to allow a flight attendant into the crew rest area. Sometimes the flight attendant will close the door to the cabin and take her break on the jump seat just to get away from " the roar of the grease paint and the smell of the crowd."

GV