Of airplanes running off the runway....

[cynic]

Do you think there is ANY relationship between the pay at the regional airlines and the quality of the individuals working there.

That is, do you get what you pay for with people, just like things.

I consider myself a bright guy, a super genius really. But seriously.... I turned down a regional job and a local job as a pilot due to the pay. I was fortunate enough to have other skills and other options.

So in short, do you get more dumba$$e$ when the satarting pay is less than 25K a year?

My theory is yes. The quality of people flying for the airlines is dropping, but at the same time, the planes are getting easier to fly so the accident rate stays about the same over time.

 

[FL000]

I turned down a regional job and a local job as a pilot due to the pay. I was fortunate enough to have other skills and other options.

Why did you even apply or interview if you knew you couldn't accept the pay rate? Sounds like you have some animosity towards pilots since you're not in the game. You're a real hero with your fight against first year pay...an army of one.

"Hey Cynic, how'd the job interview go? Did you get it?"

"Nawww. Screw them guys, man! They don't pay squat, so I told 'em to shove it." (yeah, right)

Lewwwwwzer.

The fight against first year pay will be handled by individual unions of employed pilots, not dorks who refuse the jobs up front. And really, was that the reason or just a convenient excuse?

 

[cathal]

Actually, if no one applied for Regional jobs due to the pay, I bet the pay would go up.

This battle would be won even faster if employed pilots and applicant pilots got together and refused to allow this shoddy treatment.

Unfortunately history has shown that we can only rely on each other to screw each other at every turn in the road.

What a sad state we're in when we demean others for not accepting the bad treatment we accept in the name of being a pilot and "paying our dues."

 

[Wasted]

The odds of an aircraft running off the runway is proportional to the state of the overall economy. When the economy is down, and there is no upward movement or expansion in the industry, pilots tend to get locked in their seats and hence you will find more overall experience trapped in the cockpit, decreasing the odds of a runway overrun. When the economy is up, pilots upgrade to new positions, new pilots get hired, and the overall experience level in each cockpit decreases, increasing the odds of a runway overrun.

For example, post 9-11, when airlines furloughed, flowed back, and downgraded, the cockpit experience level was higher than average since you had no more new hires and a significant percentage of FO's were actually qualified CA's. Now that hiring is back and people are upgrading, you will find more instances of landing overruns and hard landings, etc. as the experience level drops due to upgrades and new hires.

 

[FL000]

Actually, if no one applied for Regional jobs due to the pay, I bet the pay would go up.

You're absolutely right, but that's not the current market situation.

What a sad state we're in when we demean others for not accepting the bad treatment we accept in the name of being a pilot and "paying our dues."

...or calling me and my colleauges dumbarses because we chose to accept a job, knowing all the facts, based on our individual and personal situations and goals.

Cynic made a personal choice not to sign up. Good for him. If he's as smart as he thinks he is, he'll do much better financially outside of aviation. A quick review of his posts reveals a bit of class envy, and he seems to be on a mission to make up for a lifetime of it.

 

[cathal]

Hey Wasted, does Alan Greenspan know you're about to take over for him?

The next time I screw up, I'll blame the economy, not my state of mind, rest, or skill.

Hey everyone, stop crashing or I won't be able to afford my minimum payments anymore. Thanks!

 

[cathal]

You're absolutely right, but that's not the current market situation.
Nope, the current market is and will remain "screw my brother/sister."

 

[SuperFLUF]

Quality is not an issue...................yet

Before you jump to conclusions you might want to do a little research into why the ERJ is diving off of runways left and right.

There is a problem with the nosewheel steering and there have been many more cases of the airplane trying to dart off of taxiways and runways than the two that have made the news. Many crews have been able to stop it but under the right (wrong) circumstances it is uncontrollable.

The problem is not with the quality of the crews but the quality of the airplane. (Also a cheapest bidder problem.)

Now if cabotage is ever allowed and the south of the border guys start flying all over the states.........................well that'll be another story all together.

 

[Wasted]

Hey Wasted, does Alan Greenspan know you're about to take over for him?

The next time I screw up, I'll blame the economy, not my state of mind, rest, or skill.

Hey everyone, stop crashing or I won't be able to afford my minimum payments anymore. Thanks!

You poor silly soul, you suffer from irrrrational outburstance.

 

[moscowcfi]

Do you think there is ANY relationship between the pay at the regional airlines and the quality of the individuals working there.

That is, do you get what you pay for with people, just like things.

I consider myself a bright guy, a super genius really. But seriously.... I turned down a regional job and a local job as a pilot due to the pay. I was fortunate enough to have other skills and other options.

So in short, do you get more dumba$$e$ when the satarting pay is less than 25K a year?

My theory is yes. The quality of people flying for the airlines is dropping, but at the same time, the planes are getting easier to fly so the accident rate stays about the same over time.

If your theory is right, then every doctor out there is a dumbass because they did their residency for practically nothing.

 

[Anais Nin]

Do you think there is ANY relationship between the pay at the regional airlines and the quality of the individuals working there.

That is, do you get what you pay for with people, just like things.

I consider myself a bright guy, a super genius really. But seriously.... I turned down a regional job and a local job as a pilot due to the pay. I was fortunate enough to have other skills and other options.

So in short, do you get more dumba$$e$ when the satarting pay is less than 25K a year?

My theory is yes. The quality of people flying for the airlines is dropping, but at the same time, the planes are getting easier to fly so the accident rate stays about the same over time.

Actually, recent research has shown that aircraft/airline accidents have dramatically decreased due to improvements in pilot training. Evidence cited includes better technology, i.e. full-motion sim training, CRM training, etc. Now the majority of accidents are attributable to maintenance issues.

And the fact is that regional airline salaries have increased over time. Years ago starting pay at many of the regionals and 135 freight companies literally was less than $1000/month. Granted it has surely not kept pace with inflation, but many who fly big iron for major airlines paid their dues at "puddle jumpers" making far less than regional airlines pay today. These "puddle jumper" airlines were never going to more than a stepping stone to spend a couple of years at, get your PIC 121 experience and get on out! Most pilots were not trying to raise or start a family while working at these places and work rules/union negotiations/QOL issues were unheard of.
Now, with the state of the industry and flight schools en masse telling any and all potential candidates who walk in their door that a million dollar airline job is within their grasp, we have an over-abundance of 1500 hour 'pilots' trying to get on with these regionals, and looking at far longer upgrade times than used to be in the past. Now, regional airline pilots are having to try to improve contracts, in a depressed economy, with 1000's of starry-eyed new pilots itching for their job, and the possibility that this will be the airline they will have to retire from.
A lot of the moaning comes from the 30-40 year-old career changer who has been out in the world for a while, made decent money, got an itch to go fly and is horribly surprised when he finds out what the salary and benefits that he sacrificed his soul (or family or whatever) for.
So we keep plugging along, trying to change regional airline work rules and pay, but dont pretend that this is a new thing at all! This has been going on for quite some time! The best we can do is have a collective idealogy and stand behind one another in unionization. If not, time has proven, management would eat us alive!

 

[$$$4nothin]

any day flying

Any day flying beats any day at any other job, even when you are alone at 3am and you hear KUCA AWOS info read something like 1/2 sm vis and 100 OVC with heavy blowing snow and it is may 17. Although makeing 32,500 starting salary makes it eiser to deal with. Freight dog for life baby

 

[learflyer]

Any day flying beats any day at any other job, even when you are alone at 3am and you hear KUCA AWOS info read something like 1/2 sm vis and 100 OVC with heavy blowing snow and it is may 17. Although makeing 32,500 starting salary makes it eiser to deal with. Freight dog for life baby

Nah, I'd rather be at a desk job than fly in that crap.

 

[rgd]

Although cathal is right in theory about if no one applied to the job, but there will always be someone willing to do it for little or next to nothing. A big reason the pay is where it is, is because the regional carriers will hire pilots with 250 to 500 hours who just went through some quick course to get hired. If your sitting on the couch one day and see that you can be an airline pilot with a guaranteed interview in less than a year, and the bank will even loan you the money, well, shoot, that beats changing tires for a living. Anybody with 250 hours and a CMEL rating can sit in the right seat of an airliner and call themselves airline pilots. As long as that can happen, there will be low pay. If you had to have 2000 hours pic, 1500 multi, and 135 time, a few things would happen. One, guys wouldn't work for 17,600 dollars first year pay, second, there would be a lot less pilots than we have, because most would not be willing to do what it would take to get there. This would create a true pilot shortage, which would raise the pay. By making this industry one in which a person can go from never flying an airplane to being a co-pilot on a 70 seat jet in a year, you can only expect for the pay rates to go down. Hell, Sally Struthers TV/VCR repair class takes that long. J.O. at mesa has a really crappy saying, but it's true. He says that he knows he still pays his pilots to much, because everytime mesa has a new hire class, it's full.

 

[Britpilot]

Do you think there is ANY relationship between the pay at the regional airlines and the quality of the individuals working there.

That is, do you get what you pay for with people, just like things.

I consider myself a bright guy, a super genius really. But seriously.... I turned down a regional job and a local job as a pilot due to the pay. I was fortunate enough to have other skills and other options.

So in short, do you get more dumba$$e$ when the satarting pay is less than 25K a year?

My theory is yes. The quality of people flying for the airlines is dropping, but at the same time, the planes are getting easier to fly so the accident rate stays about the same over time.

Go fcuk yourself.

 

[BoilerUP]

Amazing how uninformed, ignorant flamebait from Cynic turns into a theological argument about the pay at regional airlines.

NEWS FLASH: IT SUCKS!

The EMB taco jet has a problem with the nosewheel steering as was pointed out earlier. That's why CHQ and XJT put their birds off the runway - it had very little if anything to do with the crew.

You know what they call the guy who finishes last in his class at medical school? DOCTOR. Now can we quit this stupid, baseless flamebait conversation please?

 

[cynic]

Which part of my post was ignorant and uninformed.

The part that says the pay is typically under 25K a year for pilots?

Or was it the part that explained you get what you pay for?

 

[standaman]

Most people that apply for the regionals know what they are getting into pay wise. They love thier flying jobs and are proffessionals about it. To all the people out there who interview for jobs at regionals and don't take them because of pay need to get a life. You are ruining it for the many flight instructors like myself who would love to be there.

 

[rubberducky]

Do you think there is ANY relationship between the pay at the regional airlines and the quality of the individuals working there.

That is, do you get what you pay for with people, just like things.

I consider myself a bright guy, a super genius really. But seriously.... I turned down a regional job and a local job as a pilot due to the pay. I was fortunate enough to have other skills and other options.

So in short, do you get more dumba$$e$ when the satarting pay is less than 25K a year?

My theory is yes. The quality of people flying for the airlines is dropping, but at the same time, the planes are getting easier to fly so the accident rate stays about the same over time.

So I noticed you have like 2000 hours are you working as a CFI with a "Golden Parachute" because you know they make millions. Or are you one of the Dumba## idiots who weekend fly in airplanes and weather they don't belong in (which oh by the way drives the accident rate in GA up)? Also these "other skills" you mention do they involve a pair of knee pads that you bought at Home Depot?

 

[BoilerUP]

Which part of my post was ignorant and uninformed.

The part that says the pay is typically under 25K a year for pilots?

Or was it the part that explained you get what you pay for?

The uninformed part was not knowing the story behind the off-runway events. The only off-runway incidents recently were the CHQ and XJT Embraers that went off the runway due to a faulty nosewheel steering component that has been well documented. You somehow make a connection that these events occurred because they (regional pilots) are paid lower than mainline pilots. This assumption is the ignorant part.

You mock pilots wanting a low-paying regional job because you have "other skills and other options". Yay for you. I don't disagree with you that regional pay sucks, but your assumption that low pay is the cause of accidents is ABSURD. Please continue instructing and working your "day job", and remember, a good pilot never quits learning...