NWA Phantom retirements

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I had a DAL interview the day after my NWA interview, and after I was offered the position at NWA (they told you right after the interview back then) I called DAL and told them I would not be attending the interview, they asked why, and I told them I had a better offer.

Good to know. Glad you got your first choice. Are you doing the Pacific flying?

 

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Could somebody from NWA post DOH for a 95% guy. Here at DAL is Jul 07 holding a line on the 767-300ER flying Europe and some South America.

According to Airlinepilotcentral Forums DC9 DET, or MSP. Maybe A319/320. Not able to get on the Boeing in a flying seat. That is a HUGE problem for the junior Delta FO's and Junior to Mid Level Captains.

Someone from NWA please give us a current answer on Jetjock's question if this is not correct.

 

[Superpilot92]

So from Puffdrivers posts it appears he wants DAL newhires to be put in front of the NWA pilots that have been furloughed a couple time. Explain your logic Puffy. You say you dont think the bottom of the list should be predominantly DAL pilots, right? Well DAL has hired more people so in theory it would be the DAL newhires and NWA newhires at the bottom of the list and yes you are right the majority of them would be DAL newbs ONLY because DAL hired more not because of ratio. Whats the problem with DOH for guys hired post 911? Realistic expectations would be beneficial there puffy.

 

[DTW320]

According to Airlinepilotcentral Forums DC9 DET, or MSP. Maybe A319/320. Not able to get on the Boeing in a flying seat. That is a HUGE problem for the junior Delta FO's and Junior to Mid Level Captains.

Someone from NWA please give us a current answer on Jetjock's question if this is not correct.

That is inaccurate. For the June flying month, the guy 99% down the list is 757FO Reserve in either MSP or DTW.

The 95% down the list is a March 2001 hire.

 

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DTW: Thank you. That's about even then, except for the ER flying.

 

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So from Puffdrivers posts it appears he wants DAL newhires to be put in front of the NWA pilots that have been furloughed a couple time. Explain your logic Puffy.

I think his logic is based on relative position.

The NWA "logic" was a ratio that put pilots like you behind Delta new hires not even on the property to compensatre for your dynamic seniority system.

NWA's position was worse for you than Delta's. Why isn't that concern brought up by anyone? Unless you are sure you can make Captain in your wave of dynamic movement, you'd be screwed by Delta's larger dynamic wave coming later.

The only folks that benefit from Dynamic are mid to senior NWA pilots. I'd like to know your thoughts....

 

[Fly4hire]

Good to know. Glad you got your first choice. Are you doing the Pacific flying?

Could have been for the last 10yrs as S/O on the freighter, but life, kids, family pushed me toward a domestic schedule for the time being. After doing some EU flying I kind of like being within 3 time zones of home.....

 

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Understood, same choice, same reason.

 

[Superpilot92]

Wrong. I'm in my 2nd yr on the 737 and i make 20% more than a 2nd yr. 320 guy. What other b.s. are you throwing out as facts? Face it guys, NWA has always been everyone's last choice of the majors. Crappy airplanes, crappy bases, people that didn't get hired at the other majors ended up there. Who the heck wants to fly a DC9 out of DTW?? If we do merge, it won't be hard to figure out who came from where when we're all in one uniform, y'all look like a bunch of slobs. Ok, bring it. Everyone knows this, someone had to say it.

You are exactly whats wrong with this industry!! Are you to "good" to fly a DC9? Should we give up the 100 seat flying to the regionals because you are to good to fly the *GASP* OLD AIRPLANE?? That attitude is why you have so many regionals doing your flying. I guess the 737-200-300s were to *OLD* to fly so let the regionals do your jobs instead. Hey some of you DC9-80s are getting old too you better get ready to give that flying up also You wouldnt want to get your Double-Breasted Jacket dirty flying an *OLD* airplane uke:


The rest of your post is worthless arrogant flamebait and isnt worth responding to.

 

[Superpilot92]

I think his logic is based on relative position.

The NWA "logic" was a ratio that put pilots like you behind Delta new hires not even on the property to compensatre for your dynamic seniority system.

NWA's position was worse for you than Delta's. Why isn't that concern brought up by anyone? Unless you are sure you can make Captain in your wave of dynamic movement, you'd be screwed by Delta's larger dynamic wave coming later.

The only folks that benefit from Dynamic are mid to senior NWA pilots. I'd like to know your thoughts....

I havent been able to go to any roadshows so i wont pretend i have seen every offer or how each would effect me. I do know that by both sides just presenting obvious unrealistic *offers* we wont be getting anywhere. Lets hope cooler heads prevail. We just got a letter saying both sides are about to meet together to knock out the joint contract. This meeting wont be discussing SLI though. I suspect both sides understand its going to have to go to arbitration so i am guessing thats where the SLI will get taken care of. Hopefully they can knock out the joint contract soon though. At least that would be a step in the right direction.:beer:

 

[DTW320]

DTW: Thank you. That's about even then, except for the ER flying.

You're welcome.

I will say that you guys seem to place a huge importance, at least in your talking points here, on where the airplane is going, i.e. your new hires are flying to Europe etc. Just me personal opinion, but most guys here seem more interested in QOL, paycheck and time off. IMO the 320 has some of the best flying in our system. I've been doing 24 hour+ layovers in Cabo, Cancun, and Montego Bay all Spring with 17 days off/month on average crossing no more than 3 time zones and doing zero redeye flying (which is a big part of most Europe flying). Rumor is the 320 will be doing some intra-Europe NBA charters (we got that contract back) this summer for their exhibition season. I did the NBA charters on the 727 and they are the most fun you will have with any major airline flying IMO.

Not to get into a premium widebody flying debate again, but whenever it comes up you guys seem to run to the point about where the airplane goes instead of what it pays compared to domestic and QOL.

 

[Fly4hire]

I think his logic is based on relative position.

The NWA "logic" was a ratio that put pilots like you behind Delta new hires not even on the property to compensatre for your dynamic seniority system.

NWA's position was worse for you than Delta's. Why isn't that concern brought up by anyone? Unless you are sure you can make Captain in your wave of dynamic movement, you'd be screwed by Delta's larger dynamic wave coming later.

The only folks that benefit from Dynamic are mid to senior NWA pilots. I'd like to know your thoughts....

Has your MEC actually shown you other than sound bites exactly how the various SLI proposals would affect you or I? My understanding is your road shows did not include that information.

Ours had both graphical and numeric modeling of how it would affect all pilots - #1 - #12000, and except for DOH that was never a real proposal every one that DAL proposed disproportionately advantaged DAL pilots, and especially awarding of Captain positions far beyond the percentile differences in the size of our 2 pilot groups.

 

[Noserider76]

Not to get into a premium widebody flying debate again, but whenever it comes up you guys seem to run to the point about where the airplane goes instead of what it pays compared to domestic and QOL.

I've flown plenty of domestic and I have to say the QOL flying Europe here is hard to beat. 3-day 20+ hour, 2-leg trips, with 24 hours layovers. Just spent a great day in Stuttgart, 72 deg and the biergarten was open. This shouldn't have anything to do with a seniority integration but expectations of being able to hold a particular high paying aircraft and associated upgrades should.

 

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I will say that you guys seem to place a huge importance, at least in your talking points here, on where the airplane is going.... Not to get into a premium widebody flying debate again, but whenever it comes up you guys seem to run to the point about where the airplane goes instead of what it pays compared to domestic and QOL.

Well, that's pretty much the issue, just Delta's version of "Premium Widebody Flying." For those of use who left jobs paying around six figures to fly for Delta, the justifications for the job change hinge on keeping pay & schedules around that level.

Sounds like we have a lot of common ground, except for Africa, India and Moscow in the winter.

Superpilot92: For you and me, I hope this joint contract does something to fix scope. Our upgrades depend on it. I doubt anyone at Delta fears flying the DC9 since almost everyone on the property has that rating. Most of us would prefer to fly it, or something like it, from the left seat. This fact does not seem to register with the Delta MEC. We could use your help there. I've written my Reps, have you?

 

[Noserider76]

Ours had both graphical and numeric modeling of how it would affect all pilots - #1 - #12000, and except for DOH that was never a real proposal every one that DAL proposed disproportionately advantaged DAL pilots, and especially awarding of Captain positions far beyond the percentile differences in the size of our 2 pilot groups.

Did they explain why the proposal they made then DL accepted was rejected by them when the numbers were run? What do you propose for a solution that allows you to take advantage of your near term retirements, but also allows us to take advantage of our greater retirements a few years later as well as our far greater numbers of high paying equipment? That's what I see as the crux of the problem. If this is a negotiation after all, what do you guys have to offer in exchange for access to the much higher paying fleet DL brings to the table? I don't want your retirement position, I just don't want to give you mine either.