NWA Phantom retirements

[SpauldingSmails]

But the Northwest pilots slowly distroyed... My prayer is that it does not end up distroying Delta Air lines.
I hope Delta can improve your pilot groups attitude.

Cool, maybe you can improve NWA pilot attitudes and the NWA pilots can really teach you how to spell the word "destroy".

 

[PuffDriver]

DOH all the way down to the new hires would put the last DAL class on MAY 5th at the bottom of the list. NWA last class was April 7th. So we are talking a very few DAL guys at the bottom of the list, but they where the last ones hired even after the merger proposal was announced. But if you look at how many DAL guys have been hired SINCE 9/11 when DAL and NWA started to hire after 6 plus years, there are many many more DAL New hires and they would benefit greatly over post 9/11 NWA new hires with DOH. I believe SINCE 9/11 NWA has hired around 250?? DAL around 500??? SO there would be alot more NWA so called post 9/11 new hires in the bottom 1000 to 750 or so pilots by a combined DOH SLI.

Delta has hired over 700 pilots since 911, and the plan is to hire again in the fall prior to the date of merger. The makes the bottom of the list predominately Delta. I don't think that will go over so well. My guess is that we will push relative, your guys will push something in the DOH neighborhood, and the arbitrator will do whatever.

 

[Speedbird34]

Cool, maybe you can improve NWA pilot attitudes and the NWA pilots can really teach you how to spell the word "destroy".

First productive post I have seen from a Northwest pilot recently, need to use spell checker more or get a smart dude like you as my editor!

I fixed the error good puppy.

Thanks.

 

[PuffDriver]

He never said stick all DAL newhires to the bottom. Are you arguing with yourself again?

[/QUOTE]Looks like he's losing[/QUOTE]


Over 2:1 Sorry, guys. I know that your brains aren't exactly engaged these days, but having 700 of the bottom 1000 guys from Delta--aka reserve--when a fair amount of them are international line holding f/os is not acceptable to them or an arbitrator.

But go ahead and hold your little shower spit swap in gang up land. It was easy out debating you 1:1, and it will be no less easy 1 v 2

 

[jetjockey#1]

Could somebody from NWA post DOH for a 95% guy. Here at DAL is Jul 07 holding a line on the 767-300ER flying Europe and some South America.

 

[ThisistheDream]

DAL starting hiring after 9/11 before NWA did at a higher per month class size. So that would put alot of DAL new hires ahead of NWA new hires going by DOH. The 1st NWA new hire class after 9/11 was in oct of 2007. I think DAL was hiring alot in 2007 so you would have at alot of the 700 DAL newhires ahead of any NWA new hire. SO going by DOH would put 200-300 DAL new hire pilots ahead of any NWA new hire. Overall DAL has hired more so there would be more DAL junior pilots than NWA, but by DOH the DAL pilots overall ratio of seniority would be higher then the NWA new hires since a good portion of the DAL new hires where hired PRIOR to the NWA new hires. NWA didnt hire until october 2007. I think pilots in NWA 1st class in OCT can hold, 757, A320 Reserve or DC9 and 747 FE block.

 

[SpauldingSmails]

First productive post I have seen from a Northwest pilot recently, need to use spell checker more or get a smart dude like you as my editor!

I fixed the error good puppy.

Thanks.

Well at least you got a sense of humor.

 

[PuffDriver]

DAL starting hiring after 9/11 before NWA did at a higher per month class size. So that would put alot of DAL new hires ahead of NWA new hires going by DOH. The 1st NWA new hire class after 9/11 was in oct of 2007. I think DAL was hiring alot in 2007 so you would have at alot of the 700 DAL newhires ahead of any NWA new hire. SO going by DOH would put 200-300 DAL new hire pilots ahead of any NWA new hire. Overall DAL has hired more so there would be more DAL junior pilots than NWA, but by DOH the DAL pilots overall ratio of seniority would be higher then the NWA new hires since a good portion of the DAL new hires where hired PRIOR to the NWA new hires.

I understand what you are saying, and I see the logic, but look at it from a different perspective of a 13000 pilot airline. To take a pre-merger Delta pilot who flies international as a line holder, and put him/her back on reserve is going to be a tough call for an arbitrator to make. That's all I am saying. In addition, our 90/91 hires are ER captains--as well as a couple of 96 hires. Our bottom line holding 88 captains are in the mid '98 hire range. Throw in DOH and a wrench gets thrown in there as well.

Of course, and arbitrator may do just that-DOH, but I doubt it.

 

[MJ42]

I understand what you are saying, and I see the logic, but look at it from a different perspective of a 13000 pilot airline. To take a pre-merger Delta pilot who flies international as a line holder, and put him/her back on reserve is going to be a tough call for an arbitrator to make. That's all I am saying. In addition, our 90/91 hires are ER captains--as well as a couple of 96 hires. Our bottom line holding 88 captains are in the mid '98 hire range. Throw in DOH and a wrench gets thrown in there as well.

Of course, and arbitrator may do just that-DOH, but I doubt it.

You make it sound as if all new hires are walking out of training into being a line holder. You're saying that the staffing is that short? Where are the reserves at?

Yes, they should be on reserve, they(as well as I) knew what we were getting into....especially the last couple of DAL classes.

As proven many times before, you're easily debatable. No help needed, you do a fine job wondering all over the map on this subject. Just depends what thread I'm reading and I can find several of your conflicting posts.

I want a FAIR SLI for all NWA and DAL pilots.

 

[PuffDriver]

You make it sound as if all new hires are walking out of training into being a line holder. You're saying that the staffing is that short? Where are the reserves at?

Yes, they should be on reserve, they(as well as I) knew what we were getting into....especially the last couple of DAL classes.

As proven many times before, you're easily debatable. No help needed, you do a fine job wondering all over the map on this subject. Just depends what thread I'm reading and I can find several of your conflicting posts.

I want a FAIR SLI for all NWA and DAL pilots.

Not at all, yes staffing is lean. Yes, some are walking right into line holding right out of training--most notably 88 NYC guys. There are many line holding f/os internationally that have been here a year or less, again predominately in NYC and ATL. Apparently I am lying in this regard as well--only I'm not.

As far as the "conflicting post" thing, and "wandering all over the map", and "As proven many times before, you're easily debatable", all are blanket statements with no real proof--just your assertion so they MUST be true. Alas, debate takes proof--and you have none. Here is yet another post where you get spanked.

Indeed, they knew what they were getting into--a fast paced growth period where they would be line holders right away.

You just got spanked again BTW. Must be my "wandering" and "conflicting" again. I just wish that those voices in my head would stop.:laugh:

 

[MJ42]

Not at all, yes staffing is lean. Yes, some are walking right into line holding right out of training--most notably 88 NYC guys. There are many line holding f/os internationally that have been here a year or less, again predominately in NYC and ATL. Apparently I am lying in this regard as well--only I'm not. And none of us want to take that away from them! As Thisisthedream said, a majority of those guys would be senior to NWA new hires going by DOH for the newbes.

As far as the "conflicting post" thing, and "wandering all over the map", and "As proven many times before, you're easily debatable", all are blanket statements with no real proof--just your assertion so they MUST be true. Alas, debate takes proof--and you have none. Here is yet another post where you get spanked. If I had more time today I could find many of your posts that are all over the map on SLI.

Indeed, they knew what they were getting into--a fast paced growth period where they would be line holders right away.Not the last several classes. Since talks really started to heat up in January there has been a lot of speculation and uncertainty. New hires just starting class could not have expected fast pace growth, no one new (or currently knows) what would/will happen.

You just got spanked again BTW. Must be my "wandering" and "conflicting" again. I just wish that those voices in my head would stop.:laugh:

"
Spanked? By whom? You? Is that what those "voices" are telling you?:nuts: At least you admit to having a mental disorder, that's the first step in getting help...good luck.

 

[Fly4hire]

Maybe once upon a time many many long years ago Northwest Airlines was a place worth working at.
But the Northwest pilots slowly destroyed the place by showing poor leadership, never supporting their labor groups and constantly bending over to management and the oler guys, At northwest seniority rules and junior guys are trash. My prayer is that it does not end up destroying Delta Air lines.
The culture sucks!!
Very poor pilot leadership. I hope Delta can improve your pilot groups attitude.

Another specious "talking point" by DALPA to villainize the enemy so it's easier to justify the seniority atrocities proposed.

FWIW, NWA has been an excellent place to work, I've been treated fairly and professionally, and the people are by and large very pleasant to work with.

The biggest hurdle has been our management, which is now your management. I had a pleasant and civil conversation over beers with a DAL pilot on a layover a few weeks back over a number of issues, including our culture. When I commented that you guys now have RA who spent 14yrs at NWA, and was a former Lorenzo lawyer, the response was "he's on board now to the DAL way of doing things" However this things ends up, please don't be so naive as to believe that.

Be very, very careful with RA - he is capable of patting you on the back with a smile while he slices your nuts off with the other (if he hasn't already and you just don't know they are missing yet)

 

[Speedbird34]

Another specious "talking point" by DALPA to villainize the enemy so it's easier to justify the seniority atrocities proposed.

FWIW, NWA has been an excellent place to work, I've been treated fairly and professionally, and the people are by and large very pleasant to work with.

The biggest hurdle has been our management, which is now your management. I had a pleasant and civil conversation over beers with a DAL pilot on a layover a few weeks back over a number of issues, including our culture. When I commented that you guys now have RA who spent 14yrs at NWA, and was a former Lorenzo lawyer, the response was "he's on board now to the DAL way of doing things" However this things ends up, please don't be so naive as to believe that.

Be very, very careful with RA - he is capable of patting you on the back with a smile while he slices your nuts off with the other (if he hasn't already and you just don't know they are missing yet)

Point taken maybe you are more civil than the vibe I get. Hopefully we all surprise each other. When I see a Northwest pilot I just want to get away right now. i also have to check the resentment. It is very easy to make enemies when you can not tell who is pointing a gun at you. You just may feel it is easier to kill anything that moves near your gunsights.
It is a wise saying" check your target"

 

[PuffDriver]

And none of us want to take that away from them! As Thisisthedream said, a majority of those guys would be senior to NWA new hires going by DOH for the newbies.

..and as I told him, and you, you need to think of the airline as a whole. 13000 pilots leaves our most senior new-hires in the reserve range. That is unacceptable from where they are now, and moves your reserve guys on top of them to come in and take those international lines away. What part of that is unclear. That is unacceptable. You also fail to address our line holding captains, and our widebody captains. BUT, at least you reinforce the rumor that you guys are pushing for DOH. I'll file that little tidbit for future reference. DOH is not fair to the Delta pilots, it is not part of merger policy.


Not the last several classes. Since talks really started to heat up in January there has been a lot of speculation and uncertainty. New hires just starting class could not have expected fast pace growth, no one new (or currently knows) what would/will happen.

..and yet they have. I fly with them all the time. It's not about what might happen, it is what IS happening on the day of closure.


Spanked? By whom? You? Is that what those "voices" are telling you? At least you admit to having a mental disorder, that's the first step in getting help...good luck.


Yup, spanked. You are not adding to the discussion, merely a speed bump--annoying to everyone including your own. The other gentleman and I seem pretty cordial with one another. The problem is you. It's entertaining for me though imp:

 

[ThisistheDream]

I see an arbitrator going by a DOH type basis with little corrections to offset obvious unfair SLI areas and with fences for a few years until retirements start to kick in. What is the ALPA bylaw for mergers with two ALPA carriers?? This whole merger right now is looked at as a wrench for the pilots because prior to any merger we all had a picture and vision of our future, what number we would retire at, how long to become a captain etc...But in life as we all know nothing is ever guarenteed and things can and will always be changing but what we dont seem to realize that this merger is a change for the better long term!!! We all will have to give some to gain alot. And in another 20 years dont be surprised if we go thru this all over agian when there is another merger.