New FedEx 737 Rumor...

[Murdawg5]

Just flew on a jumpseat, and here's a FedEx 737 rumor I heard...

Evidently, FedEx has an aircraft purchasing/leasing segment of the corp. called FEASI... One of their jobs is to go out and look for potential good deals for the fleet... Well, they've found some 737-300s/400s out there for a price that is acceptable... 30 or so airframes, some from SWA and some from elsewhere... However, these 30 airframes are not standardised, some with GCAT and others with Smith FMS's, etc (whatever that might mean)...

Anyway, they are not the same, and here's where the problem lies... FEASI wants to lease these airframes as the way they are... FedEx flight management doesn't want to lease the 737's as they are... They want the 737's to come on the property as a standardised bunch of airplanes (which makes sense to me), and have the lessor (the current owners of the aircraft), pay for the upgrades and then have FedEx increase the lease price of the aircraft...

Weeellllll... FEASI doesn't want to do it this way... They just want to pay the lease price for the aircraft as they are, and have the crew force fly them like we fly the MD11s and MD10s, having us deal with the differences.... (BTW, does anyone know if you need seperate type ratingings for the different types of 737s??? I'm sure you do...)

Soooo... As of a week ago, flight managaement has said that if we can't get the 737s all standardized before the lease, then they will not support leasing them at all and wants FEASI to find another way to replace/augment the 727's.... FEASI has told flight management that they need to take the 737s as they are and deal with the differences.....

Does this sound like corporate infighting or what???!!!! I'm sure this is normal corporate America and who knows how this powerplay will run its course....

Just another rumor to pass the time....

Take Care,
Murdawg5

 

[typhoonpilot]

Not sure the validity of the rumour but I'll play. To the question about type ratings, only one type rating is needed in the United States to fly all models of the 737 from 737-200 to 737-900. Strange as it may seem that is the way it is because they are all the same " type ". Most other countries don't see it that way and would type accordingly for the different models, i.e. 737-300/400/500 would be the same type while 737-600 through 900 would be a different type.

As to the differences in the airplanes that are available for lease I can only speculate. USAirways operated a fleet of over 130 737-300/400s which were analog airplanes. They had FMS, but no EFIS, i.e., no map display. Kind of like having a computer without a monitor. These airplanes are different than what everybody else bought, but some are on the market now and do present a problem to potential buyers/leasors who would like to grow a fleet. Do they take 30 airplanes that are analog and then 30 EFIS airplanes at a later date ?, or do they convert the analog airplanes now ? I'm sure those ex-Airways airplanes are cheap because they are very different so they may be the ones that Fedex is looking at.

It really wouldn't be that hard to fly the different airplanes, analog/EFIS. Southwest does it with crews flying -200s through -700s. Once you get used to the analog 737 it is okay to deal with, it is just nicer to have the map for situational and position awareness.

Hope that helps,


Typhoonpilot

 

[Huck]

Want to see the importance of standardization? Sit at the 72 panel, give yourself a simulated nine light trip (i.e. close your eyes), and point to the most important switch if you are taxiing- the brake interconnect. I've seen it in 4 different positions....

After all the emphasis on Casper, etc., I'll be amazed if we fly another steam gauge plane.

 

[RichardFitzwell]

Want to see the importance of standardization? Sit at the 72 panel, give yourself a simulated nine light trip (i.e. close your eyes), and point to the most important switch if you are taxiing- the brake interconnect. I've seen it in 4 different positions....

After all the emphasis on Casper, etc., I'll be amazed if we fly another steam gauge plane.

I'll bet 95% of the people reading this have no idea what a nine light trip is or what the brake interconnect does.

Huck, have you sheared any generator shafts in the sim. yet? How about cranking the gear down on short final while the Bitchin' Betty is calling 30, 20, 10. If not, your better than me.

Just over three years sitting sideways.

 

[spanky2]

Typhoon,
I may have a disagreement on the type rating issue. I heard that 737-200 thru -700 uses one type rating...BUT...the -800 and -900 are separate. Even though the NG jets have the same cockpit, the -800 and -900 are s-t-r-e-t-c-h-e-d and the performance is different enoughto warrant a sep type. Maybe a reason that SWA does not have any -800 jets...different type required. Could be wrong. SWA comments ???

Spanky
got a couple of years of -200 time...and the -200 does have "glass"...it covers the round dials.

 

[EIflyer]

"Most other countries don't see it that way and would type accordingly for the different models, i.e. 737-300/400/500 would be the same type while 737-600 through 900 would be a different type".


I just checked my JAA (European) licence, it says B737-300 thru 900 models. It seems we can eliminate Europe from "most other countries". For the record, I only fly the 400 and 500 variants.

Sure enough, my FAA license simply says B-737

 

[Tanner]

CAL has 300/500/800's. Crews fly all three. Same type.

 

[C-17->Majors]

A capt in standards I've been flying with this week said they have all but discounted the older 737's (300-400s?) due to speed issues (slow). Are the later models that much faster? Will we get SWA work rules if we fly them? (MEM-CPR-GJT-COS-MEM AM out and backs?) I'll take a nine light trip over that any day.

 

[typhoonpilot]

It seems we can eliminate Europe from "most other countries".

There is always a danger in broad generalizations, but the basic point remains the same. You still can't fly a 737-200 in Europe with you JAA certificate that says -300 thru 900 while you could in the States with your FAA certificate.

BUT...the -800 and -900 are separate. Even though the NG jets have the same cockpit, the -800 and -900 are s-t-r-e-t-c-h-e-d and the performance is different enoughto warrant a sep type.

I would bet $$$$ that you can fly the -800/900 in the USA with a B737 type rating. The DC-9, MD-80, and MD-90 are the same type rating even though they have vastly different performance characteristics, not to mention different flight decks. Boeing even got the FAA to buy off on making the 717 the same DC-9 type rating even though it is considerably different from the DC-9 and MD-80.

Typhoonpilot

 

[mach none]

I will bet a steak dinner that all the 737s are on the same type rating in the USA.

 

[RichardFitzwell]

I have flown -300s, -500s, -700s, -800s in 121 ops. with my B737 type. No difference.

 

[jbDC9]

Typhoon,
I may have a disagreement on the type rating issue. I heard that 737-200 thru -700 uses one type rating...BUT...the -800 and -900 are separate. Even though the NG jets have the same cockpit, the -800 and -900 are s-t-r-e-t-c-h-e-d and the performance is different enoughto warrant a sep type. Maybe a reason that SWA does not have any -800 jets...different type required. Could be wrong. SWA comments ???

Nope, like a few others have said, the -8/900 type is the same as a -200/300/500, etc. No difference. Only thing we gotta do different in the stretch 737s is a quick little chant before every takeoff or landing; "don't drag the tail, don't drag the tail..."

I don't really see what the big deal is about different cockpits; I can fly a leg in a dirty old round dial -300, then walk over to the next gate and fly a shiny new -900. Not that big a deal really, we do it every day with a 300/500/700/800/900 fleet; that's 3 different cockpits.

And what's up with Delta having their 737 groups divvied up so small?? One pilot group for the 200, one for 300 round dial, one for 300 glass, one for 800s... are they a bunch of weenies that can't handle it or what? (kidding of course!)

 

[Fly-n-high]

Yes...the 737NG's share the same type as the old school 737's. You can thank Southwest for that. I'm so sure it was a good thing, though.

Originally, Boeing wanted to make the cockpit similar to the 777, along with any new Boeings that come out in the future, but that would have caused the 737NG's to have different type ratings.

Well, Boeing's largest 737 customer, Southwest, said that they wanted the 737's to have the same types, so Boeing chose to appease them, resulting in a large order by Southwest but also resulting in a new 737 that does not have a "state of the art" cockpit.

Boeing later admitted that it was a bad move to not fit the new 737's with the 777 style cockpit.

 

[TR4A]

Well, they've found some 737-300s/400s out there for a price that is acceptable... 30 or so airframes, some from SWA and some from elsewhere...

Must be from elsewhere because the only 737's that are ex-SWA are high time -200's.

Are the later models that much faster?

Speeds similar to the 727. Cruise about .78 to .80, the "Classic 737" normal cruise is .74/.75.

 

[nhbizz]

JbDC9,

We used to have larger categories for the 73's here. DFW and SLT base would fly both the -200's and -300's round dial. While the -300 that were glass was it's own category. All our 737-300 glass are on the shuttle in NYC now. But, I am not sure why the-800's are completely different. Must be a union/company pay thing?

 

[Midnight Mike]

spanky2

Typhoon is correct, there is only "1" 737 type rating, the airlines will supply some sort of differences training.

 

[mainah]

Not to be a dick, but its actually the -100 and up, not -200.

 

[KCSO780]

I don't think anyone is flying -100's anymore.......

 

[Huck]

Richard-

I haven't sheared one yet, but I did run the Cargo Fire checklist instead of the Lower Cargo Fire in the sim once. For some reason the bell wouldn't silence, and it was a real loud bell. I didn't let it intrude on my little trip down the primrose path....

 

[mainah]

I don't think anyone is flying -100's anymore.......

Still the same type though.

 

[typhoonpilot]

Not to be a dick, but its actually the -100 and up, not -200.

I knew somebody would catch that sooner or later. Like the other guy said, there aren't many -100s flying these days so I left it out, but you are quite right, it is the same type.

Typhoonpilot

 

[skirt]

I'll bet 95% of the people reading this have no idea what a nine light trip is or what the brake interconnect does.

Huck, have you sheared any generator shafts in the sim. yet? How about cranking the gear down on short final while the Bitchin' Betty is calling 30, 20, 10. If not, your better than me.

Just over three years sitting sideways.

Ah, yes....such fond memories of sitting sideways. It has been 12 years since I "flew" the panel, but still remember the after start flow that a crusty retired Braniff instructor once taught me:

"Banana, three B, Z, dot the I"

....that means: Essential power (yellow switch), three generator breakers (3 B), galley power, Left pack, fuel pumps, B hydraulics (Z), right pack (dot the I).

Don't know if it still applies.

Skirt

 

[TonyC]

"Banana, three B, Z, dot the I"

....that means: Essential power (yellow switch), three generator breakers (3 B), galley power, Left pack, fuel pumps, B hydraulics (Z), right pack (dot the I).

What's galley power?

 

[Swerpipe]

Southwest will maintain the same cockpit

While on tour on the Southwest training facilities I asked the instructor what they would do if they got -800 or -900s and he said "we can just paint -800 or -900 on the box and change the software, inside they will be identical". This is true perhaps only for Southwest. Same type rating.

 

[VaB]

powerpowerpumppumppanelpackpressure

 

[firstthird]

I think the 700/800/900 aren't really all that different up front. Various companies buy different mods but the sim we use at Dallas CAE for the navy is actually an 800 (ours is more like a 700 or bbj), if they swap out the pressurization panel (which is more modern on the 800 I presume or than what the Navy bought is probably more likely) then the cockpit is pretty much just like ours, minus a tacan and UHF and iff type stuff.

 

[TR4A]

I don't think anyone is flying -100's anymore.......

AWA was flying one a few years ago. There were only 30 -100's made.

 

[Falconjet]

Flows

VaB: That is the current before start flow for the FE at FedEx. The after start is just "cap em, close em and sit on your hands". Then you do a u around the panel starting with essential after the Capt calls for the after start checklist, holding on the A pumps until the ground crew is clear. Galley power would be such a nice thing though.

FJ

 

[Goose17]

VaB you crack me up

6-5-BIPPP-CPA

I swear that when we finally do upgrade, for traffic calls at 12 o'clock, we are going to turn and look at the captain.

Goose17
(liv'n the dream)

 

[b757driver]

I have both FAA and EU licenses and have flown Juraissic and NG versions of the 737.
Having first-hand experience of the various makes and models as well as the US and EU licensing authorities, this is how it works:

In the US, no matter which type of 737 you take on your checkride, you will only ever see a "B737" type written on your certificate. Thus, it is not evident from the certificate alone, which model the training/experience was gained on.

In Europe, you will - B737-200, B737-300/400/500 (considered classic nowadays) and B737-600/700/800/900 (Next Generation).

With regard to Boeing, on the NG models, the overhead panel was kept similar to earlier versions by continuing to use toggle switches instead of the push buttons that are featured on the 747-400/757/767/777s. The reason: to keep the same basic type rating so that pilots would only have to do a "differences" course. If they had changed the overhead completely as well as the glass, then it would have been a totally separate type rating but they wanted to keep it in the family, so to speak.

In another life, I was flying and rated on a Juraissic -200, did the differences course with Boeing and ended up flying the 737-800. Then when I decided to add the 737 type on my FAA ATP, I did a 737NG PIC Initial with all that entails and checked out in a 737-800 sim. My FAA ATP shows B737.

Hope that helps to those still wondering.

B757driver