New Bid for USAIR EAST Pilots?

[Lampshade]

I would say this is where the intelligent get seperated from the unintelligent but let's save that for another thread.

I'll argue about it if you want but I'd rather focus on the issue at hand.

You are ignorant on the power of unity. Go pay and get you $250 yellow lanyard that shouts your intelligence.

 

[Fly-n-hi]

You are ignorant on the power of unity. Go pay and get you $250 yellow lanyard that shouts your intelligence.

Ok. I guess you do want to argue about it.

You are ignorant on the power of the law. Hopefully you are senior to me. Not paying is a sign of your emotional state...not a sign of unity.

You're comments are neither constructive or resonable. Paying shop fees isn't a sign of support for USAPA but rather a sign that I'm not willing to get fired over dues payments. Not becoming a member is the sign that I don't support USAPA.

This isn't a strike. If you refuse to pay anything they can and will have you fired. These guys think you "stole" their seniority and would love to have a reason to get rid of you. You won't get your job back. End of story. The US Airways attorneys have said that they will fire pilots if USAPA presents them with the nessecary info. The don't have a choice.

If you feel like not paying anything is the best course of action then by all means go for it. I disagree with you. I hope that in the end you don't lose your job.

 

[Dan Roman]

And you think that employee relations don't show up on the bottom line?

Better let SWA in on that one.

Boy that REALLY went over your head. Right wrong or indifferent, the East guys are the ones who decided to create the chaos that exists today by deciding it would have to be their way or no way at all.

 

[Lampshade]

Ok. I guess you do want to argue about it.

You are ignorant on the power of the law. Hopefully you are senior to me. Not paying is a sign of your emotional state...not a sign of unity.

You're comments are neither constructive or resonable. Paying shop fees isn't a sign of support for USAPA but rather a sign that I'm not willing to get fired over dues payments. Not becoming a member is the sign that I don't support USAPA.

This isn't a strike. If you refuse to pay anything they can and will have you fired. These guys think you "stole" their seniority and would love to have a reason to get rid of you. You won't get your job back. End of story. The US Airways attorneys have said that they will fire pilots if USAPA presents them with the nessecary info. The don't have a choice.

If you feel like not paying anything is the best course of action then by all means go for it. I disagree with you. I hope that in the end you don't lose your job.

Do you know how many pilots were in bad standing with ALPA? Do you know how many pilot historically have been fired by the Co. over not paying dues? Do you think they will fire 1800 pilots? Does your genetic code contain some invertebrate DNA?

 

[PHXFLYR]

I don't think this SLI issue can affect the survival of LCC one way or the other. You could say they might be missing out on some of those famous "synergies" that managements like to bally-hoo about when trying to sell one of their "deals", but in the end the airline in question winds being as inefficiently run as it was before.

And lets face it, how can you blend the seniority lists now, with all the acrimony? Can anyone really see these two groups flying monthly trips together or even a 4 day trip out of the same bases after all this?

I say best thing is to just keep 'em apart, run 'em separate, and go from there. Furlough or hire the pilots as you need them to staff the respective bases. Separate contracts? Dunno. Who cares? Doesn't amount to a relative hill of beans to the company anyway. A westie gets furloughed because his side gets cut more? Well, looks like he's on the "side" that needs more rationalization. Part of the biz. Have to commute because you can't get into the other side's base? Then you just keep doing what you've always been doing. Besides, do you really want to fly outta there anyway with all those easties or westies or USwhatevers or AWhatevers?

Looks to me like that train's left the station.

And you fools were the engineers manning the locomotive.


PHXFLYR

 

[PHXFLYR]

Why haven't the west pilots said something like... we know you east guys aren't happy with the award so why don't we develop a methodology by which the guys who spent sixteen or seventeen years on the property will have that time recognized for bidding and upgrading?

All I've heard on this forum is , to heck with you, enjoy being junior to Dave.

Maybe because 16 or 17 years longevity at the old USAir bought you a very jr reserve F/O position,much like what happened to an old college buddy of mine. Hired at USAir in 1987,never upgraded although he could have held F28 Capt in the early 90"s but chose not to. Never furloughed. After all the cuts, furloughs and 2 trips thru BK court, 40 from the bottom;737 reserve F/O CLT. This is with a 1987 hire date and having never been furloughed. Now ask yourself 2 questions. Did he have longevity at his old airline ? You bet. Did he have seniority at his old airline ? Not by a long shot. While he had 21 years of longevity, regrettably all it bought him was a very low seniority 737 reserve F/O position at his old airline.If he had that longevity at my old airline his seniority would've allowed him to hold 757 Captain. Unfortunatly guys this is how it works. And it always did. In 1978 Pan Am (remember them ?) merged with National Airlines.Prior to the merger Pan Am had quite a few furloughs and career stagnation for those who remained (sound familiar?) as they started replacing 707's with 747's,while National was expanding and upgrading due to retirements. Alot of the same issues that are in play today with our merger were in play then, only this time it was National with 10 year 727 Captains hop scotching up and down the east coast vs 20 year Pan Am 707 international F/Os with vast overseas experience. (Care to guess who the "rookies" in that bruha-ha were? )The sooner you guys realize the difference between longevity and seniority and how one affects the other,maybe we can hammer something out and hopefully move on. But then again if the posts on this webboard are a true reflection of the east pilot group,why bother ?


PHXFLYR

 

[Colonel Savage]

And you fools were the engineers manning the locomotive.


PHXFLYR

You illustrate my point perfectly.

 

[PHXFLYR]

Since when did anything you post have a point ?

PHXFLYR

 

[Fly-n-hi]

Do you know how many pilots were in bad standing with ALPA? Do you know how many pilot historically have been fired by the Co. over not paying dues? Do you think they will fire 1800 pilots? Does your genetic code contain some invertebrate DNA?

Why are you casting insults? There's no need to be a hothead. If you have a point to make then make it politely. I will listen and respond politely. For example, I could respond by saying "at least my genetic code isn't missing several strands" but I don't want to turn this into an insult war so I won't.

Will they fire 1800 pilots? I don't know. What I do know is that if they only fire one I don't want it to be me.

I also know that just about all the guys I've spoken with plan on paying the agency shop dues after sending their letters of objection and challenge and after recieving the certified bill from USAPA. You're not gonna have 1800 pilots behind you. You're gonna be like Will Farrell on Old School when you realize you're the only person running down the street naked.

Honestly, I don't care what you do. If you want to take your chances then more power to you.

 

[Colonel Savage]

Since when did anything you post have a point ?

PHXFLYR

Who are you asking?

 

[PHXFLYR]

Who do you think,dimwit?

PHXFLYR

 

[Colonel Savage]

Who do you think,dimwit?

PHXFLYR

Are you talking to me?

 

[Bringupthebird]

Why are you casting insults? There's no need to be a hothead. If you have a point to make then make it politely. I will listen and respond politely. For example, I could respond by saying "at least my genetic code isn't missing several strands" but I don't want to turn this into an insult war so I won't.

Will they fire 1800 pilots? I don't know. What I do know is that if they only fire one I don't want it to be me.

I also know that just about all the guys I've spoken with plan on paying the agency shop dues after sending their letters of objection and challenge and after recieving the certified bill from USAPA. You're not gonna have 1800 pilots behind you. You're gonna be like Will Farrell on Old School when you realize you're the only person running down the street naked.

Honestly, I don't care what you do. If you want to take your chances then more power to you.

I don't think it separates the men from the boys because frankly, there haven't been any men as leaders on either side.

The west leadership simply says,"keep your chin up your eyes on the prize and await further orders."

"But sir, we have no ammunition"
"Steady boy, steady"
"For that matter sir, we have no guns"
"Stand your post"
"Sir, all we have is an empty ALPA toolbox some of the boys broke open. Well, actually it had a banana in it."
"Steady man. Don't let them see you blink"
"Sir, your inaction has reduced us to throwing poo, like some tick-infested spider monkey"
"Remain steadfast. We're working on a response"

The west pinned their hopes on ALPA defending them, which was futile. The east had little if any opposition and USAPA filled a leadership vacuum. Not with leadership, mind you, but with whatever guys were willing to accept.

Those who are willing to follow the west "leaders" (hint: you actually need to do something, not just have a plan you might someday employ, especially when so many are expecting so much) might want to take a rational look at their track record as well. They aren't advocating anything that multiplies their leverage or puts USAPA on the defensive.

In short, you're on your own. Do what makes sense to you and don't plan on getting support from anyone.

 

[Turtle21]

Do you know how many pilots were in bad standing with ALPA? Do you know how many pilot historically have been fired by the Co. over not paying dues? Do you think they will fire 1800 pilots? Does your genetic code contain some invertebrate DNA?

Are you good at Russian Roulette too?

 

[PHXFLYR]

Are you talking to me?

Yup.


PHXFLYR