New Astar contract

[goastar]

AMEN BROTHER!!!! You've got my vote. Hartman, you need a hug bro,uke: ,relax.

On another topic, having seen the UPS&FDX TAs I hope Astar doesn't even consider anything concessionary...we sure aren't.[/quote]

 

[goastar]

Yea, then we can staple you to the bottom.:laugh: You know some dummy was going to say it, just wanted to get it over with. My fingers are crossed for the merger, the bigger we all are, the better off we are.

Go big gray,blue,gray,blue!! (cheerleading) :beer:


"IF DHL/DP sign off on both sides' scopes then a merger is inevitable."

 

[AV8OR]

Look, nobody knows a dang thing. Anybody who says they do, is lyin'. As for DHL, yep, they have to sign off on it. It's ultimately them who pays th bills. As what is going to happen to us and ABX, believe me, it's not gonna be decided by a scope clause or a court hearing. It's gona be decided by who the customer wants to fly the freight.......just like it is right now. AStar flying given to ABX ABX flying given to AStar. One common thread....DHL calling the shots.

AS for a pissing contest over JS's. That's just friggin stupid by anyone, seeing as the city you have have and need today, (on either side), may not be there tomorrow. We both have scope clauses. We both have contractual rights. We both should excersise them to the fullest extent when DHL violates it,..........cause they're gonna.

Peace Out.

 

[Clipperskip]

DHL, Astar, & ABX

Look, nobody knows a dang thing. Anybody who says they do, is lyin'. As for DHL, yep, they have to sign off on it. It's ultimately them who pays th bills. As what is going to happen to us and ABX, believe me, it's not gonna be decided by a scope clause or a court hearing. It's gona be decided by who the customer wants to fly the freight.......just like it is right now. AStar flying given to ABX ABX flying given to AStar. One common thread....DHL calling the shots.

AS for a pissing contest over JS's. That's just friggin stupid by anyone, seeing as the city you have have and need today, (on either side), may not be there tomorrow. We both have scope clauses. We both have contractual rights. We both should excersise them to the fullest extent when DHL violates it,..........cause they're gonna.

Peace Out.

Well put AV8OR! Let us not forget that it was DHL management that mishandled the entire ILN integration! If it weren't for that boondoogle then these painful issues would probably not exist as they do today. We would have gained market share or at least maintained what DHL and Airborne Express collectively had at the time of the buyout. As it were, we are now all concerned with claiming "our share" of a smaller pie. Too sad! It could have been done so much better and we all could have come out as winners. I think we will still get there but I fear that it will take much longer.

 

[erichartmann]

Your sturrin the pot energetically aren't you? I doubt you depend on a jumpseat to get to work. Nice try but no one will take your bait. Go play your games elsewhere and have a nice day.

No I don't. My choice for many years. Most of the people I talk to who now live (or lived for a while in Astar stations) chose not to ride them for a variety of reasons. They made other arrangements. You could also.

I'm not playing "games". I simply don't see the point in smiling nicely and helping someone get to work who is trying to, by any means possible, take my job. IF, and its a big one, Astar's NC has such language on the table, one has to believe their MEC and the membership as a whole approve. You want to make nice nice with someone who is trying to take your job, screw up your career, deprive you of your ability to pay your mortage and feed your family, you go right ahead. uke: I'm not sure I'm going to. :bomb:

 

[erichartmann]

AMEN BROTHER!!!! You've got my vote. Hartman, you need a hug bro,uke: ,relax.

On another topic, having seen the UPS&FDX TAs I hope Astar doesn't even consider anything concessionary...we sure aren't.

[/quote]

To date I haven't seen anyone from your side of the "fence" I would be consider hugging much less be interested in.

You want me to make nice with you while you do your best hose me. Get real. :smash:

 

[erichartmann]

Look, nobody knows a dang thing. Anybody who says they do, is lyin'. As for DHL, yep, they have to sign off on it. It's ultimately them who pays th bills. As what is going to happen to us and ABX, believe me, it's not gonna be decided by a scope clause or a court hearing. It's gona be decided by who the customer wants to fly the freight.......just like it is right now. AStar flying given to ABX ABX flying given to AStar. One common thread....DHL calling the shots.

AS for a pissing contest over JS's. That's just friggin stupid by anyone, seeing as the city you have have and need today, (on either side), may not be there tomorrow. We both have scope clauses. We both have contractual rights. We both should excersise them to the fullest extent when DHL violates it,..........cause they're gonna.

Peace Out.

Yep they are. But you are trying to legally tell them which shots to call. We aren't. That's the difference.

 

[Whistlin' Dan]

I simply don't see the point in smiling nicely and helping someone get to work who is trying to, by any means possible, take my job. IF, and its a big one, Astar's NC has such language on the table, one has to believe their MEC and the membership as a whole approve. You want to make nice nice with someone who is trying to take your job, screw up your career, deprive you of your ability to pay your mortage and feed your family, you go right ahead. uke: I'm not sure I'm going to. :bomb:

Excuse me, but isn't the ABX pilot group represented by the Teamsters?

When did the Teamsters start protecting anybody's jobs but their own?

Care to share with us the language in your present contract that covers scope and successorship? I'll bet it's almost the same, if not more restrictive than whatever is in the ASTAR contract.

Whatever future lies ahead for both of these carriers depends largely upon the ability of both pilot groups to work together. Don't make this any tougher than it needs to be.

 

[penguin22]

Excuse me, but isn't the ABX pilot group represented by the Teamsters?

When did the Teamsters start protecting anybody's jobs but their own?

WE are not in court trying to take your jobs. YOU are.

You guys can smile, say you don't really mean it, blah blah blah. Bottom line; you've got your lawyers in court seeking DHL to quit doing business with ABX.

WE never tried to take the whole pie for ourselves. YOU did.

 

[Whistlin' Dan]

WE are not in court trying to take your jobs. YOU are.

You guys can smile, say you don't really mean it, blah blah blah. Bottom line; you've got your lawyers in court seeking DHL to quit doing business with ABX.

WE never tried to take the whole pie for ourselves. YOU did.

You didn't answer my question.

"What does YOUR contract say about scope and successorship in the event that ABX had taken over, or been taken over by, another company?"

It's in your CBA. Look it up and tell us what it says, as we're all dying to know where the ASTAR pilots would stand had ABX bought DHL's domestic operations.

I'll bet you a nickle that it says that your company would do ALL the flying, and that any pilots acquired in the takeover would be stapled to the bottom of your seniority list. I'm saying that because that's what's in the ASTAR contract, and virtually every labor contract. Not putting it there would likely subject the union to a lawsuit for misrepresentation.

Realistically speaking, neither ASTAR nor ABX is going to be doing all the flying. That's not how DHL works. What they're doing is breeding a number of airline groups with the intention of pitting us against each other.

Stop thinking "Cockpit Professionals" and start thinking "fighting cocks," because in essence, that's what you are. Of course, you want to win, just as the ASTAR guys want to win. But "winning" in this case isn't going to be a matter of who gets most of the flying, because that can change dramatically with DHL's next contract for services. (To be honest, DHL doesn't care who wins, what they want to do is incite a long, bloody war) Why should DHL engage in long, drawn out, and ultimately spirit-breaking efforts to slash wages and lower QOL for pilots, when they can get the same results by pitting the ABX and ASTAR pilot groups against each other?

Go rent "Spartacus," then start thinking like Kirk Douglas.

 

[hvydriver]

Penguin,

FWIW, we were trying to force a merger, to prevent precisely what is happening right now. Your leadership was not interested in that at the time. I'm not going to waste time trying to convince you or Eric otherwise. While I'm not a commuter, I'd have to say that starting a jumpseat war would be damaging to both groups. I think both sides should listen to their leadership, and act accordingly. As AV8OR said,

Peace, out.

 

[AV8OR]

So for those yall watching at home.....

According to Erichartmann and Penguin22, it's OK to HAVE scope language in your contract, just not to enforce it. Whatever dude.

 

[penguin22]

I'll bet you a nickle that it says that your company would do ALL the flying, and that any pilots acquired in the takeover would be stapled to the bottom of your seniority list. I'm saying that because that's what's in the ASTAR contract, and virtually every labor contract. Not putting it there would likely subject the union to a lawsuit for misrepresentation.

Wrong, wrong and wrong.

What is industry standard language, and what is in our contract, is Allegheny Mohawk Labor Protection Provisions. There's nothing about stapling in Allegheny Mohawk LPPs, and nothing about stapling in our contract. Only, apparently, in yours.

There IS in our contract plenty about successorship, which if we had chosen to, could go to court and try to enforce them, to your detriment. We're not doing that.

Pay up. You owe me a nickel.

 

[hvydriver]

To set things straight, there are no "staple" references in our contract. Just merger/successor language, that is standard in almost any airline contract. A/M rules apply, if another avenue in a merger is not agreed to.

 

[jettypeguy]

So where would Airborne Express be if DHL never came to Wilmington? Weren't they losing market share? I was under the impression that by DHL giving Airborne some flying they saved pilot jobs? True or not?