Military to corporate advice

[DoubleDayGo]

Hey folks, I'm a military guy getting out in about 9 months. I'm very interested in going corporate - and I have no desire to fly for the airlines. I have some questions as I try to make a successful leap from military to corporate...

1. I know corporate is primarily who you know. So what's the best way for a military guy with no corporate experience or connections to network?

2. How is a military fighter background generally viewed by corporate flight departments?

3. Do you think corporate pilot recruiters/headhunters are the way to go?

4. What are realistic expectations for me to have as far as initial job prospects are concerned?

5. What are the things I need to be doing now to land that good corporate job 9 months from now?

Any advice, guidance, or words of wisdom would be greatly appreciated. Thanks guys.

 

[GUNRUNNER22]

Have you thought about fractional flying as an option?

 

[400A]

advice

First of all, let me thank you for your military service. It appears you are a fighter pilot and I commend you for that.

With that said, the first thing you will need to do is Ctrl,Alt,Delete.

When you go to interview, show confidence, but not the fighter pilot cocky-ness that had most likely kept you alive. (that was not a personal shot) You are going to have to convince your employer that you can be a team player, and look forward to flying as a crew.

Nerver ever make your prospective employer think that you believe your F-18 time to be superior to the other candidate that flew King-Airs. Sell a positive attitude and the ability to get a mission done. (as you have in the F-18) Just remeber that it is a very different mission. Where your mission before was to get the bomb on the target, Our mission is to get our boss to the destination as smoothly as possible. We dont want him to feel our control inputs. We want to find the smoothest altitude and for gods sake,,,, dont spill his coffee. Also, one of our primary jobs is customer service.

I know, and have employed many x-military pilots. Their ability to transition was no more or less successful than trying to convince the freight guy that he did not have to fly into thunderstorms anymore.

You have proven yourself as a gifted aviator by making it to where you have. Your success will depend on attitude and willingness to learn. Be positve and adapt and you will do well.

 

[2000flyer]

If you aren't visiting civilian airports during your flying, I'd suggest investing in a good placement firm like API and the like. Unlike your fellow aviators in C9s, UC35 and such, you probably don't make too many visit to the FBOs where corporate crews hang their hats during the day, therefore, unable to make small talk during the day.

I'd also suggest going to local airports near your base and start introducing yourself. You've heard the phrase "if you know two people, you're connected to the entire world population." Well, thats true 100 times over in corporate aviation.

Also, don't forget all your fellow aviators who have made the transition to corporate before you. They'll be your best source of info and getting known. There are still a few flight departments out there who only want pilot's with military backgrounds applying, though they've become fewer over the years as folks retire.

400A gives some excellent advise in presenting yourself. Besides, you've just introduced yourself to several hundred corporate pilots, so you're off to a pretty good start!

Best of luck to you.

2000Flyer

 

[Lead Sled]

First of all, let me thank you for your military service. It appears you are a fighter pilot and I commend you for that.

With that said, the first thing you will need to do is Ctrl,Alt,Delete.

When you go to interview, show confidence, but not the fighter pilot cocky-ness that had most likely kept you alive. (that was not a personal shot) You are going to have to convince your employer that you can be a team player, and look forward to flying as a crew.

Nerver ever make your prospective employer think that you believe your F-18 time to be superior to the other candidate that flew King-Airs. Sell a positive attitude and the ability to get a mission done. (as you have in the F-18) Just remeber that it is a very different mission. Where your mission before was to get the bomb on the target, Our mission is to get our boss to the destination as smoothly as possible. We dont want him to feel our control inputs. We want to find the smoothest altitude and for gods sake,,,, dont spill his coffee. Also, one of our primary jobs is customer service.

I know, and have employed many x-military pilots. Their ability to transition was no more or less successful than trying to convince the freight guy that he did not have to fly into thunderstorms anymore.

You have proven yourself as a gifted aviator by making it to where you have. Your success will depend on attitude and willingness to learn. Be positve and adapt and you will do well.

DoubleDayGo...
400A hit it square on the head. I've had similar experiences with ex-military pilots. Attitude is absolutely everything. You will find out that there are many operational differences and that civilian flying tends to be much less structured and much more "hands on".

You asked some specific questions, I'll give them a shot.

1. I know corporate is primarily who you know. So what's the best way for a military guy with no corporate experience or connections to network?

2. How is a military fighter background generally viewed by corporate flight departments?

3. Do you think corporate pilot recruiters/headhunters are the way to go?

4. What are realistic expectations for me to have as far as initial job prospects are concerned?

5. What are the things I need to be doing now to land that good corporate job 9 months from now?

First of all, I think that you'll need to set realistic goals. There are plenty of jobs out there, but a lot of them require more time than you currently have. As far as networking goes, get your ATP under your belt (if you don't already have it) and get your resume, then start talking to people. Visit the corporate operations in your area. Make yourself known.

400A answered your second question.

Head hunters can be a good way to go, but when it comes to entry level corporate positions, they may not be as useful to you as when you have more experience under your belt.

As far as what can you expect? Well, every comany has their own set of minimum qualifications. I spend 15 years at a company that required a college degree, 4000 TT, 2000 multi, and 1000 turbine. Most of the guys that we hired had at least double that. I don't think you're going to be able to walk up to a corporate chief pilot and convience him to turn over the keys to brand new Global Express or G-V to you with 2100 hours total time. You should be able to find a positon with a charter company. That's not a bad thing, you'll get a lot of experience into a variety of airports, under a variety of conditions - quickly.

As far as what you need to be doing now? Get your ATP (or at least the written) knocked out and start making contacts.

You've got a good foundation upon which to build a career. Good luck.

'Sled

 

[DoubleDayGo]

Thanks guys - keep the info coming!

I really appreciate you all taking the time to give such detailed answers. I'm really looking forward to the challenges of something new. As far as attitude is concerned, I think that won't be a problem for me. I'm definitely not one of those types that thinks military time is superior to civilian time. In fact, I sure do wish I had a couple thousand hours or so of G-V time right about now.

It does surprise me a little though that apparently the onus is on the single seat fighter guy to prove that he is a team player and willing and eager to work as part of a crew. I wish that weren't the stereotype. Being the lead or wingman of a multi aircraft package means that you very much have to be a team player, and I would argue that CRM has many of the same considerations of a multi-crew cockpit, with the added challenge of communicating everything to each other solely over the radio. And as far as flying smoothly goes - while we are prone to yanking the plane around at times, when I'm leading a 4-ship in close formation through thick clouds, I'm also trying my best not to spill the boss' coffee (which is a metaphor for not doing something that would cause my wingmen to bump into me or each other).

Okay, that being said, I do have some more questions. 2000flyer, you said "There are still a few flight departments out there who only want pilot's with military backgrounds applying, though they've become fewer over the years as folks retire." Can anyone tell me who some of those flight departments are? Might be a good starting place at least.

Sled, you mentioned charter flying and Gunrunner asked about fractional. My concern is that with those options I may not make enough to feed the hungry mouths at home, nor would the schedules of charter/fractional allow me to augment income with some reserve or ANG flying. Are my concerns legitimate, or do you think it would be an investment in the future that is worth the short-term sacrifice? I realize that no matter what I do, I will initially take a pay cut from where I am now - and I certainly accept that as part of the process. I'm just looking to minimize the pain as much as possible.

Thanks again for all the great info.

 

[psysicx]

Where are you looking to reside after the military?

 

[DoubleDayGo]

Where are you looking to reside after the military?

We would prefer the Southeast, but if the right job came along anywhere in the eastern U.S., then I would certainly entertain it.

 

[Jack Schitt]

If you can tolerate freezing cold, I'd check out 3M up in Minneapolis. I think being an ex-Navy fighter pilot is practically a requirement to get hired. They operate a whole fleet of GV's.

 

[GVFlyer]

Get your ATP and a First Class Medical. Don't sweat the Class I - it's not as tough as a military Class II.

Be humble. Don't suggest or imply that military pilots are somehow better than civilian pilots. They already know that the military selection process for flight training and commissioning is demanding and the services spend over a million dollars making a pilot and that they've never been upside down in jet, reminding them won't help your cause.

Don't try to sell that line that flying formation is like Cockpit Resource Management - it's not. Besides, flying wing is tougher than lead from a skills standpoint. Sharing responsibility in the cockpit is a new skill that you will learn quickly.

Consider a job at NetJets or equivalent as 2 year transitional employment to gain a transition into a jet used by corporate America. Many other former military pilots and turboprop regional pilots have used the fractionals for that purpose.

The Bardens at Aviation Personnel International in San Francisco and New Orleans have placed many military pilots at no cost to the pilot - they work for the employer.

Network with the guys that have left the Navy (or Marines) and found corporate employment. This is a word-of-mouth profession and a good recommendation is better than a fat logbook.

400A has given you good gouge about finding a job in the civilian world. In the military we are very competitive, we compete for everything, command, promotion, schools, aircraft and the General's daughter. We try to sell our superiors that we can do anything with nothing. We are constantly trying to increase our span of control. There is no question that when we go into a new assignment we want our boss's job. This scares Hell out of civilians.

When you go to a job interview don't try to sell them that you're there to solve all their problems - they already hired that guy. Show them that you are collegial, will fit right in and want to join their team. Sometimes it's hard, we have an astronaut in our outfit; when he first came onboard I told him that in many cases the people he would work for couldn't have competed in his world (the corporate suits not the rated leadership), but all of that didn't matter - it's like it all happened in an alternative universe where different rules applied that had no bearing on the realities of this world.

Good luck,

GV

 

[AA717driver]

DoubleDay--I think you will have to overcome the reputation of those who have come before you. I went from the airlines to corporate recently and so many of my predecessors "poisoned the well" by coming and then running back to the mother ship as soon as they got recalled. I had to overcome that. Plus, so many of my predecessors think the sun rises and sets on their a$$es... Former fighter pilots have established a similar reputation.

Sounds like you're starting with a great attitude. One of the things I had to overcome was the thought that because I've got a great airline resume, the whole aviation world would beat a path to my door. WRONG! But once I got over that, I got to work and it paid off.

Good luck. At least you came to the right place--this board is a wealth of information. Thanks again for your service!TC

 

[2000flyer]

Double,

The flight department I was referring to is a Falcon operator in the SE. Only one hard requirement was "former military." While the help wanted ad didn't say this, I got it from a personal friend of the CP's.

My brother-in-law flew for a National airline several years ago and it was their policy NOT to interview any pilot with single-seat time. He said it was their experience that they didn't play well with others (paraphrasing). Personally, I think thats BS. Attitude is a state of mind as is being a team player. IMHO, its harder to train a pilot to fly alone, especially considering the tasks you have to deal with alone and in your element, than to train a guy to work as a crewmember. But, hey, thats my $0.02.

Once in a while if you follow the job sites, you'll see those whom prefer someone military trained.

One thing you might consider as well are some of the government flying jobs out there. Now, you may be fed up with working for uncle sam, but I can't imagine a better way to tack on a few more years to my government retirement and there are some pretty good jobs out there that will allow you to do that. Just a thought.

2000Flyer

 

[501261]

How is a military fighter background generally viewed by corporate flight departments?

Any advice, guidance, or words of wisdom would be greatly appreciated. Thanks guys.

First of all let me say, thank you for serving our country.

To answer your question, I would say overall very favorably. And it’s not because of the phenomenal training you have received, or that your just as comfortable inverted as you are right side up. It’s because you were able to earn a commission, qualify for UPT, earn your wings, and be talented enough to in that training to be able to get into an FA-18.

In essence you have already had 4 interviews and been very successful at them. As a manager, I know that you are most likely a very talented, driven individual. That’s why I think military pilots are so sought after.

The reality is it depends more on you. Are you going to be happy flying some lackey that just happened to be successful in the business world that likes to drink Scotch (or was it Ketel One), from Akron to Providence at .78 Mach, wondering if the Limo is going to show up?

The last time I flew, I took our VP of marketing and 6 clients to a project. I think it was a very successful trip and we might have sold at least 4 of them. Are you going to be happy doing these kinds of flights, considering your last flight might, most likely involved life and death?

Also, you are limiting yourself already by trying to stay in the Southeast. While it is certainly possible to find a great job in your hometown, the odds are against it. Think of it this way, there are probably (and this is just my personal guess), less than 500 quality corporate operators in the US, what’s the probability that one of those is in your hometown? Also the closer you are to Florida with all its flight schools and students that are willing to do anything to build time, the less likely you are to find a quality job.

Good luck and welcome aboard!

 

[Phrogboy]

Double and everyone that responded so far,

Excellent questions and responses. I am in the same boat as I try and make the transition over from a mostly military helo background to a what I hope will be a rewarding career in the coorporate world. Advice like this is extremely helpful. Please keep it coming.

GVFlyer- you mentioned something that I found interesting. I have heard before that ex-military are sometimes handicapped by our "Can do Attitude" when mixed with a group of civilians. I, as many of us, would think this a strength. I am hoping for a position where I am not just a number, but a member of a team in which I can make a difference for the department and hopefully for the companies bottom line. I know this will take some work and I am more than happy to do that. My question is how should I present this at any potential interviews, could it be viewed as a potential threat to the status quo, and with this attitude will I be viewed as a team player? Just curious.

Thanks again.

 

[GVFlyer]

Double and everyone that responded so far,

GVFlyer- you mentioned something that I found interesting. I have heard before that ex-military are sometimes handicapped by our "Can do Attitude" when mixed with a group of civilians. I, as many of us, would think this a strength. I am hoping for a position where I am not just a number, but a member of a team in which I can make a difference for the department and hopefully for the companies bottom line. I know this will take some work and I am more than happy to do that. My question is how should I present this at any potential interviews, could it be viewed as a potential threat to the status quo, and with this attitude will I be viewed as a team player? Just curious.

Thanks again.

If you're applying for a job in flightest at the Big G, where the leadership and everyone everyone else is former military you can say what you just told me - they know where you're coming from. Otherwise, even at a place like Proctor and Gamble, where the chief pilot is an Army general officer, you have to go slow because he knows you will have to work with the civilians in his department.

By going slow I mean to apply for the job that's open not the one that you eventully want to have. Be confident and professional in both demeanor and appearance. Buy an interview suit. You can let the guy know your skilled, just don't go overboard. You have to judge how the interview is going and if the guy(s) doing the interview would be threatened by your ambition before proceeding on to more tenuous ground. I've always thought that you should hire your potential replacement, but not everyone buys into that. In most situations it would be okay to say, "I would be happy to work for XYZ company in any capacity, but when it's my turn I'd like to be considered for positions of greater responsibility." You don't want to appear as if you want to jump the line. Remember that most flight departments are small - less than 30 people and have little turnover, so it is essential that everybody, "just get along." Nobody wants to hire trouble.

After you're in the department you can quietly demonstrate your competence and perhaps be given more meaningful collateral duties overtime, but expect that most advancements and other things will happen according to seniority, not necessarily merit. Most corporate flight departments feel that by giving all the pilots equal access and the same expectations for promotion, advancement to larger aircraft and so forth that it will keep the troops happy. Could be they're right.

GV

 

[AA717driver]

GV--One aspect of corporate aviation that had kept me away was the political side. I found out early that many corporate operations operate on a "kill or be killed" mentality. Either you screw your rivals out of a position or they will do it to you.

I still don't like the fact that you can't be honest with many people in some departments for fear of creating a political enemy. Fortunately, at my current company, there is little of the political maneuvering I described. But you never know when it will raise its ugly head...TC

 

[TCA]

Congrats to this thread!!



I have watched quite a few of the posts for some time now rolling in the “Oh my Gods!” to “dang that was funny.” Now I have at last seen a thread that answers the question and offers help. I hope that I can add a little to this. Here is my first post.



First, thank you for your service!!



I have enjoyed GVFLYER’s posts as they are thoughtful and accurate. I would give great weight to the contents of his posts. That is in this case except for one. Barden. I used Janice Barden many years ago in a job search and I was not impressed. I have been earning my “keep” in this industry for 28 years now and there is one thing that has held true for me. Every flying job that I have had came to me through my networking….everyday, all day! You are doing that now and getting great support from everyone….way to go Board!!



The aviation industry can be very cruel or very rewarding. In real estate it is location, location, location. In aviation it is timing, timing, timing!! The industry seems to be cyclical on a twenty year bias . I believe we are in another adjustment period in every facet on the industry.



I have a few question that you may want to ask yourself. My son-in-law is in the Corp. and is staying the 20 because he asked himself these questions. 1. Do you have the opportunity to stay or move branches? 2. What is the payoff. (retirement, benefits, security, dollars long term) in each job opportunity? 3. What are the effects of either choice a or b on my family?



Remember this, Aviation very much like a blind date and the lights may not come on until the door is closed!!



Hope the best for you and if you would like to talk directly please let me know.



Still Climbing

TCA

 

[Phrogboy]

GV and TCA,

Thanks again!! Excellent advice, and it looks like Double and I have our work cut out for us.

 

[sleepy]

I would say that you should target flight departments where the CP or Director is an ex-military pilot. When our company had an ex-navy pilot in charge, he liked to hire ex-navy pilots. Our current boss comes from a civilian background, and he has only hired pilots with a background similart to his.

I am not saying that this behavior is right or wrong, but people tend to favor people with similar backgrounds. I enjoy flying with all of our pilots. We have a good group of people that know how to get along together. I think this is the key to a good (large) corporate flight department.

 

[DoubleDayGo]

You guys have been awesome. It's nice to see a thread where everyone isn't
s#!tting all over each other for misspellings, misspeaks, or misplaced modifiers. I've probably learned as much from this one thread as I have from surfing threads for the past couple months. So thanks very much to all!

Of course, some more questions...

- Is fractional flying a preferred way to build some time and make some good corporate connections? If given the luxury to choose between a fractional or a small corporate gig (same pay), which would be a better career move?

- How often do manufacturers like G hire demo/test pilots, and how difficult are those jobs to get? Seems like those would be great jobs themselves, let alone be outstanding stepping stones to a large corporate flight department.

Phrogboy, thanks for jumping in! Good luck bro, and keep this thing going with the questions I'm not thinking of.