Mass power outages

[ILLINI]

Just heard on Fox News that there are mass power outages in NYC, Cleveland, Toledo, Detroit, Ottowa, Toronto, and I think some other east coast cities as well.

Supposedly all flights have been cancelled out of JFK. I wonder how this will affect other ATC functions???

Hopefully this doesn't last too long.

 

[banned username 2]

All these areas at exactly the same time??? HHhhmmm... something is fishy here. I can't imagine any one event taking down that large of an area. I wonder if our towel headed friends have been busy again...

Coincidence, I think not...

 

[ILLINI]

Yeah, that was the first thing that crossed my mind as well. Word from the white house is that this is not terrorist related.

I guess some plant in NY was overworked due to the heat and shut down. This then caused a cascade effect that caused the other plants to shut down as well. I guess it has something to do with the grid system that is used.

They are showing footage of thousands and thousands of people just walking out of the city b/c the subway isn't working. Kinda reminds me of 9/11 to be honest. I'd hate to be one of the people stuck in the subway right now!

 

[Skyboss]

MSNBC is reporting there's a fire at a major plant in NY...

http://www.msnbc.com/news/952578.asp?0cv=CA01

Note: The site is up and down.

 

[Swass]

The same power grid serves these cities, I would doubt it if it were terror related.

 

[banned username 2]

The same power grid serves these cities, I would doubt it if it were terror related.

It is amazing that one grid would serve all these cities, that is a huge area. Just curious where you got your info from (not that I am doubting you, was just curious what other large areas are all tied together)

 

[Flash]

Something similar happened in the 1960s? Failure in power grid originating in Niagara took down the Northeast power system. Looks like they've made a lot of progress in 30 years!

 

[Skyboss]

Here's a map:

http://www.eere.energy.gov/der/us_pwrgrid.html

 

[banned username 2]

D@mn good thing the NY to Cleveland Maglev wasn't running when this happened, would have certainly lfown off the tracks!

 

[Skyboss]

Gee you're funny. It even took less than 10 minutes.

 

[Fast8945]

Fire was not true. It was from the boilers at the power plant.

 

[Skyboss]

News just had to sensationalize it. How much you want to bet they were all pumped up for a terrorist attack?

 

[banned username 2]

Well I guess this event (massive power outage) single-handedly wipes out any (bizaar) rationale for a country-wide Maglev...

 

[Skyboss]

And how many planes were diverted today?

Please.

What was freaky were the people walking across the Brooklyn Bridge, kind of 9/11ish.

 

[banned username 2]

Better to be stranded in an airport terminal then walking through some farm field after your Maglev comes to a screeching halt in the middle of nowhere.

They said planes that were in the air were allowed to continue to their destinations. Airports were operating on backup power. Also planes were allowed to depart after the initial shutdown was lifted. Said delays were typically 15 minutes or so.

 

[jergar999]

Just saw Bloomberg. He said the whole thing was fire related, that the power grid is not permanently damaged, and that things should be up and running soon. He also mentioned the terrorist thing, and said there appears to be no connection. No mention of maglev trains, that must be coming in a separate press release.

 

[2000flyer]

NYC + power outage....can you feel the love tonight?

2000Flyer....just trying to lighten the mood in here

 

[ILLINI]

Fox News is saying that this whole thing started when a power grid on the US side of Niagra Falls was sturck by lightning.

 

[dmspilot00]

Something similar happened in the 1960s? Failure in power grid originating in Niagara took down the Northeast power system. Looks like they've made a lot of progress in 30 years!

Yes, I thought so too. Another one happened in the 70s too. I did some research and found http://www.nypost.com/200years/35199.htm

also found

November 9th, 1965. The great Northeastern Blackout, beginning around dusk and soon affecting tens of millions across a huge swath of Earth including New York City and Long Island, New Jersey, about half of Pennsylvania, virtually all of New York State and much of New England, Eastern Ontario and most of Quebec. All suddenly dark where there had been dark.

Apparantly today's, and both blackouts in the 60s and 70s were caused by failures near a Niagara Falls power station which is linked to the entire NE. In the 60s it was a power station that tripped, in 70s it was lightening that stuck power lines, and this time it sounds like lightening struck some facility near the Falls. I don't think Falcon Capt.'s speculation is appropriate.

 

[2000flyer]

You would think they'd learn their lessons. Who on earth figured you could put that many millions of people on one grid and it not just be a matter of time.

 

[banned username 2]

I don't think Falcon Capt.'s speculation is appropriate.

My speculation was during the first 10 minutes of the news reports of the events. Was just a guess on my part, seems weird that they would allow the power grid to affect such a large area with a single event.

 

[dmspilot00]

You're entitled to your guesses, of course. I just thought more people would know that this has happened before because it was such a major event.

 

[flywithastick]

I don't think Falcon Capt.'s speculation is appropriate. [/B]

have to disagree and support Falcon's assessment. Whether or not it was representatives of the "peaceful" religeon of Islam or just some punk hackers, I'm convinced someone did it intentionally.

Reasons... Big difference between the power distribution system today and 30 yrs ago is the interconnected and software driven load management systems. Unless dozens of load shedding devices (disconnects, breakers if you will) all failed or were simultaneously rendered inoperative (unbelievable having worked in the power industry a few moons ago), then it almost has to be a failure of the load management system itself. What two things would cause this entire system to fail? bad software or corrupted/altered software.

Just like TWA 800 was a "random, unique" failure... so will be said of the blackout of summer 2003.

my 2¢

 

[dmspilot00]

So a lightening strike was somebody intentionally sabotaging the power grid...sure...

 

[flywithruss]

Does anyone else hear the black helicopters circling overhead?

Perhaps it was the Trilateral Commission or the New World Order or the People for the Preservation of Stone Age Toilets?

We live in a world of technology. Sometimes technology breaks. When it does, we're inconvenienced, and then we fix it and move on.

Hopefully Mayor Bloomberg is right ... this will all be fixed by tomorrow and it will be nothing more than people asking each other, "Where were you when the lights went out?"

 

[flywithastick]

So a lightening strike was somebody intentionally sabotaging the power grid...sure...

Lightening taking out power distribution systems?! Lightening hits the US system 1,000 times a day and the system stays intact. it's designed to handle lightning, and designed *not* to collapse when overloaded or otherwise experiences a fault. It's called load shedding.

Besides, I said I believed it was a software hack/attack.

flywithruss -

We live in a world of technology. Sometimes technology breaks. When it does, we're inconvenienced, and then we fix it and move on.

You seem pretty agreeable with the possibility that it just "broke". Would that answer satisfy you with a crash of something like Swissair 111 (or any large aircraft)?

 

[dmspilot00]

According to news reports lightening struck in Niagara Falls which is the heart of the power distribution system for the Northeast. The power disruption caused numerous power plants to go automatically offline to protect themselves from overloads. I believe the news (all networks, CNN, Fox, etc) is saying that the power disruption caused 20+ power plants to go offline within three minutes. This is very similar to what happened last time.

 

[jergar999]

I just heard that there was no reported storm activity in the area, so they are looking at other possible scenarios. Anyone from that area, if you can turn your computer on, care to respond as to what the weather was like this morning?

 

[flywithastick]

I just heard that there was no reported storm activity in the area, so they are looking at other possible scenarios. Anyone from that area, if you can turn your computer on, care to respond as to what the weather was like this morning?

he Niagara Falls area wx.

http://www.srh.noaa.gov/data/obhistory/KIAG.html

I don't care if it was the heart of the system, or on the fringe. No distribution or transmission system I know of would go down with a lightening strike. Even residential distribution is designed and equipped to handle lightening strikes.

Could just be that the system just "broke". If so. guess I'll be eating my words later. but, I'm not holding my breath.

 

[dmspilot00]

(1996)The West was struck by a heavy blackout last month, when an outage on an Idaho transmission line, combined with record power demands during hot weather, caused a ripple effect that cut power to 15 Western states and parts of Canada and Mexico. About two million people were affected.

So here we have a recent example of how one single transmission line caused a power outage in 15 states plus two other countries.