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Management threatens NPA again!

  • Thread starter Thread starter BR715
  • Start date Start date
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BR715

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 6, 2002
Posts
127
Heard around the water cooler that if we do not allow the retired training department guys to stay that the company will not furlough but fire every pilot that is in his or her probationary year. Could not believe it when I heard this. As far as I am concerned this is the defining moment for our union. Do we have what it takes to stand up to the company? I am already starting to get that funny feeling the NPA will sign a letter of agreement allowing the instructors to stay. If this is the case I believe our union is a dead animal!
 
We have to hold the line on this. I agree with your analysis completely. If this happens, the damage to the airline would be severe as the pilots revolt.

If the BOD votes on this, I feel we would have no other choice than an immediate vote for impeachment of any BOD member trying to pass it. Here we go again.

At least we are finally starting to build a little unity as virtually everyone I talk to on the line is on the same page. Good luck to everyone.
 
I thought the union just sent out a blast mail, or maybe it was on the NPA forum that specifically said the company has NOT approached the union about any concessions or changes to the training department furlough policy.
 
I thought the union just sent out a blast mail, or maybe it was on the NPA forum that specifically said the company has NOT approached the union about any concessions or changes to the training department furlough policy.
They did. It was in the P2P update.

I'm hoping this one is just a nasty rumor although the company DOES keep repeating their habit of doing nasty things right after they get side letters they want... this last one saves them over $300,000 per year.

Anyone who thinks this management team will EVER do ANYTHING on the up-and-up with the pilot group is simply delusional.
 
for those who don't know, is the issue here letting the retired training dept guys return to active flying now that the age is 65?
 
More then that. You have the old guys past 65 in the TRN. dept. that if furloughs go down they will be the first to go. The company might want in LOA that will let them stay. If the NPA budges on this, its time to recall again.
 
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Not quite Michael, however that is another issue. If the NPA BOD approves it, (over 60 guys that were check airman coming back on line), it will be sent to the membership for ratification and will fail 100%.

What everyone is getting hot and bothered about is a rumor. Our current contract says that if they furlough a single pilot, all of the instructors in the training deptartment not on the seniority list will be laid off. I would guess that would be about 20 guys. The rumor is they will fire instead of furlough line pilots on probation to get around that clause and save the training dept.
 
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The contract says "LINE PILOT", and I would not put it past this Co.Mgt. to interpret that as not including probies. Then also interpret that when talking about probies, since furlough is not specifically addressed in the "may be terminated, disciplined, suspended without cause" and without protection of the Contract, that they use that excuse to lean the group.

Terminate? Maybe, but not for reasons of "reduction of force", we have provisions in the contract for reduction in force. And I believe even the probationary pilot is still a LINE PILOT, and thus covered under the reduction in force language. I also believe that the section discussing the right under the contract of a probie is for disciplinary action, not downsizing. So, downsizing is NOT a perfectly acceptable reason for terminations. But that doesn't stop the company from interpreting differently, or our Genious Legal Counsel-Laura from advising our BoD to fold this hand again!
 
Terminate? Maybe, but not for reasons of "reduction of force", we have provisions in the contract for reduction in force. And I believe even the probationary pilot is still a LINE PILOT, and thus covered under the reduction in force language. I also believe that the section discussing the right under the contract of a probie is for disciplinary action, not downsizing. So, downsizing is NOT a perfectly acceptable reason for terminations. But that doesn't stop the company from interpreting differently, or our Genious Legal Counsel-Laura from advising our BoD to fold this hand again!
I know this is going to irritate some friends of mine but, believe it or not, most of the crap that came out of the last few years of LOA's and items given up at System Board or before arbitration were not Laura telling the NPA they weren't winnable, they were AP capitulating to the company.

The one thing I've taken from my NPA involvement is, if the notes that were taken during all those System Boards and pre-arbitration talks were made public, the pilot group would probably want to drag AP out onto the tarmac, tarred, feathered, then thrown into a running engine of a 737. 'Nuff said.

As far as this discussion goes, it's really not worth getting spun up about... yet. There's 3 separate issues here:

1. Terminating probationary pilots outright to accomplish a reduction in force. The answer: it's illegal and would likely result in the overnight operation implosion of the airline when those termination notices came out. I don't think even Kolski and Anderson have those kind of cajones.

The reason it's illegal: we have two COMPLETELY different sections that deal specifically with this - Reduction in Force and Discipline. You can't terminate a probationary pilot without a discipline charge. Period. The point of a separate probationary discipline section is to disallow them access to the grievance system (which I disagree with, but I digress). Because it's illegal, they'll have to furlough if the want to reduce the work force which is, amazingly, covered in the "Reduction of Force" section.

2. Reduction in Force requires the furlough of training department instructors and the bidding / appointment of line pilots to the training department. The NPA has come out and said they have NOT been approached by the company about this.

Might Kolski or Anderson or Klaus or even Floy made some off-handed comment that has made its way back to the water cooler? Possibly. But the contract is very clear and they'll have to get relief on this from the NPA or risk a deliberate violation of the contract with negotiations ongoing with the mediator. Again, nothing they haven't done before, but you'd get an almost immediate negative reaction on the line from the pilots getting furloughed or downgraded knowing the company was willingly violating this section.

3. Return to flying after age 60, i.e. the "Bill Mann" issue. Anyone who doesn't think this one is Dead On Arrival is dreaming. I predict at least a 95% NO vote on this WHEN it comes to ratification, as it opens the door for a LOT of retired guys to displace line Captains back to F/O and F/O's to the street if they furlough AND bring back over-60 guys.

Using my super sleuth capabilities, and looking at their backgrounds, I would bet that its the AirTran pilots union.
Super Sleuth... *snicker* ;)
 
most of the crap that came out of the last few years of LOA's and items given up at System Board or before arbitration were not Laura telling the NPA they weren't winnable, they were AP capitulating to the company.

The one thing I've taken from my NPA involvement is, if the notes that were taken during all those System Boards and pre-arbitration talks were made public, the pilot group would probably want to drag AP out onto the tarmac, tarred, feathered, then thrown into a running engine of a 737.

Why am I not surprised?
 
Yeah upsat employees can cost the company alot of money,

CAL runs better than most airlines and actually treats their employees well, (SWA as well) and look they win all the AWARDS. You would think MGT. teams would take some lessons from CAL?=BUT NO
 
You deny your newbies access to the grievance process? Are they paying dues? Can you say duty of fair representation?:puke:
 

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