For Those People Interested in Emirates...

[johnsonrod]

I found this thread on Pprune and thought it was interesting. Sounds like an ASA driver is interested in Emirates but confused as to why there are so many negative opinions of Emirates on the various information boards like Pprune. I actually just heard about a Delta mainliner who quit his job recently to take a 777 FO job with Emirates - I hope he likes working very hard... See the exchange below from Pprune:

Regional Pilot interested in Emirates:

I got an email the other day from Emirates saying that I've been invited for an interview next month in Dubai. I was really excited about it, but after doing some research, I found a lot of people that aren't happy with Emirates. It seems like a lot of people are leaving to go elsewhere. The Emirates presentation that I went to in Atlanta really impressed me, so I'm pretty confused as to the truth about Emirates. I have several questions that I'd like answered from someone with an open mind. My current position isn't that bad because I'm at a regional airline in the US as a IP/checkairman. I'm making about 95K right now, so I'm not in a rush to get out. I just don't have any heavy time and I want to see what else is out there. The majors in the US are crap and I expect there to be many liquidations or mergers to come. Hell, I don't think any of them are going to hire for years and years to come. Continental is hiring, but I see them furloughing in the near future. They are just reacting to retirements. Anyhow, I'm looking for some advice, so anyone's opinion is well worth it. Please, just the facts, I have some important decisions to make.

1. Why is everyone wanting to leave Emirates?
2. What are the schedules like at Emirates? I read on Emirates's website about 8 days off. But I saw a post that said 15 days off.
3. What's training like? Is it like Cathay? As in "do or die" attitude?
4. What's upgrade time? I've heard 3 years, but read 7-9 years. I think Emirates upgrades whoever they want without regards to seniority. True?
5. I heard you guys are worked like dogs? Any truth to the matter? I read many posts about fatigue and lack of infrastructure.
6. I need help with the interview. What books do I need to get? I've looked for the Cathay Interview book, but can't find it!! I've also looked for the Technical Pilot Interview by Gary Bristow and can't find anything. So I need some fast help there.
7. Is Dubai safe? What's it really like? Can you live on FO's pay out there? Is my wife safe while I'm gone?
8. The housing.....I'm really confused about this. If you're a captain.....you're given a villa? And if you're an FO......you're given an apartment in a highrise? I've heard some are crap and others nicer.
9. How do you all think I should get to Dubai? I looked and there's an Emirates flight out of JFK direct to Dubai for 1250 bucks!! Yikes!! Any solutions?

Anyhow, I appreciate some help from you guys or gals that I've experienced all this. Thanks...

Response from an Emirates Pilot:

Hi flyg, hope this will help a little. Before you read on bear in mind that I am someone who is leaving.

1. Your first question is why? There are various reasons why guys are leaving and our management use the generic phrase 'personal reasons' to cover the resignations . Essentially Emirates has changed great deal over the past few years and in their quest for expansion they have left their main asset behind; their staff. Our salaries have remained static despite massive inflation and the managements attititude has been one of arrogance and disrespect. For the European drivers the demise of the dollar has also had a major effect on income to the point where EK is no longer viable. Emirates is a work in progress and crisis managment is the order of the day. At some point they will have to start putting money back into the company if it is to keep going... and they do at least have the money when they are forced to use it.

2. Days off vary. You should get 8 days off per month but it is not rare to get more. Unfortunately due to the lack of forward planning we are very short of pilots so those that are here are taking up the slack. So days off or not you wil be working hard.

3. Training is generally good, thorough, but good. It tends towards the pedantic and 'checking' rather than training and be prepared to be patronised but there are mostly good guys doing the job and shouldn't be an issue.

4. Upgrades are a hot topic at the moment. Due to the aforementioned lack of planning, DECs are now being employed. This has a major effect on upgrades for those already in the RHS. Past assurances of from the management with regard upgrades from within have boardered on lies. 3 years would be very optimistic and 5-7 could be nearer the mark at your point of joining.

5. Guys are working very hard. The Airbus fleet are working up to their maximum hours (100/month, 900/years). Boeing are follwing suit. East - west patterns compound the fatigue issue but the medical support is good.

6. There are a few other threads on this forum which cover the interviews. They are not that bad and the best advice is to be yourself. The sim is where most people come unstuck, continuing an unstable approach instead of going around for example. Fly safe.

7. Apart form the traffic Dubai is generally safe and your wife should have no problems. Hide the credit card, one thing we are not short of is malls!

8. As an F/O married with no kids you will be offered an apartment. Once upgraded you are entitled to a villa. The accomodation is a mixed bag, some good some not so good. The problem is you will not know where you are going to live until you get off the plane in Dubai.

9. Good luck with getting to Dubai. Another option may be via London with Virgin. They fly from Newark and JFK to London then on to Dubai. Perhaps it might be cheaper and if not the view should be pleasant enough.

Good luck with any decision you make. I don't know exactley what you would be leaving to come to EK but I realise that it is a tough time at the moment and it is difficult too see the wood for the trees. If you can be prepared and come to EK with your eyes open then there is no reason why it shouldn't work out for you either in the short or long term.

Cheers.

 

[johnsonrod]

And here's the description of life in Dubai from the same Pprune thread (doesn't sound very nice to me despite the flashy skyscrapers):


Hi, for my two dirhams worth, PLEASE MAKE SURE YOU HAVE YOUR EYES OPEN WHEN YOU COME HERE FOR A VISIT! Don't look at the place through "rose coloured glasses" as a lot of people do. The comments below come from a post on the Expatwoman website and although it was written some time ago and for someone coming from Austrailia I think it is worth reading for you in your situation.

Cheers


Living in Dubai all depends on what perspective you look at it from.

I have lived and worked in the UK, Europe, Austrailia (Sydney and Melbourne) and New Zealand, so I feel that I can comment with a degree of balance and common sense.

I can honestly say that Dubai does NOT do it for me! Four years ago it was a very different place. The city of Duabi now, is a concrete jungle construction site that is out of control. The traffic is horrendous to the point of making inner city London traffic good, and the standard of driving is enough to make you cringe. However the municipality are working on the roading and are trying to increase the number of roads to ease congestion (like building a 6 lane highway right through a supposedly higher income community!) The rulers have actively moved in to slow construction as it my guess that they have at long last grasped the idea that the infrastructure can not handle any more load placed on it. (the cancellation of the majority of the Dubai-Land projects is a case in point)

Once the "bright Light Big City" novelty value of Dubai wears off, most people find that there is not a lot to do here unless you want to be paying out all of the time. Sure there are country clubs, beach clubs, very good restaurants and the shopping is fantastic to say the least, but all of these are a continual drain on the purse/wallet. For the majority of expats that come here, they do so to save money to put towards a better future for when they head home, unfortunately Dubai is completely geared up to take all of your hard earned cash from you, in fact that is the only reason the place exists! The place is completely artificial and has no soul. There are a few places of natural beauty ie the beaches and the mountains are worth a visit or two but that is about it, and the desert is ok if you like sand! As an antipodean it really goes against the grain to have to pay to go the beach!

Today has been a nice day in Dubai. It rained this morning (the first time in months) and for once we had a really blue sky instead of a hazy murk. The temperatures at this time of year are quite pleasent and from a British expats point of view I can understand fully the lure of sunshine everyday, however summer is approaching rapidly and with that brings temps of 40-50 deg C every day, no outside living for the summer months unless you want to be a dripping mess in five minutes! (it never officially gets above 50deg here as to do so would mean sending the Sub continental labourers home from the construction sites)

Dubai is currently tax free...yes well..they get it in other ways, you will be devastated when you get your phone bill if you have been calling internationally...the local telecoms company is owned locally and charges amongst the highest call rates in the world! So you think "OK I will use the internet phones etc" but they block the majority of those (depending on where you live) so they have the monopoly - and milk it for all they can!
VAT (Value Added Tax) is on the way as well and as for assurances that it will not increase prices etc here...come on guys!

Having been here while - too long most likely I can hear some people saying - it makes me laugh to recently read in the papers about people ( mainly new expats) about how they have no rights here and that they would appeal this and argue that at court back at home....well GET REAL PEOPLE....you have NO RIGHTS here. You are Expats, always will be and that is that. Live with it! If there is a problem between an expat and an National, whether it be driving, business, rental or the like, it will more than likely not go in favour of the expat! That is just part of living in the Middle East.

If you are looking to come here, I hope you (or the bread winner)like to work long hours for your monthly pay packet. The majority of people here that I know rarely work a "standard" week as per their contact and there is always pressure to do more for less, I know full well that is the way of the world but it seems that greed is a little more prevalent here. Figures of 30k dirhams have been floating around, that is quite good money if that is over and above housing, schooling, power and water etc, if not you will struggle to save. It has got expensive here recently.

A statement made to me recently sums it up beautifully, "as an expat in Dubai, you are really nothing more than a second class citizen, living in a very nice third world city"

If you are coming here from the Antipodes think very carefully and PLEASE DON'T sell everything up at home thinking a shift here will long term...the average length of stay here for an expat is 18 months, I didn't believe this when first told it but over the time we have been here it has worked out about true. It is very difficult for the grass to be greener here when you consider that is the middle of the desert! This place is just not home, it never will be and the little annoyances gradually build up. Do a search on this site concerning: quality of service, getting things fixed, school waiting lists, traffic, litter, smelly cab drivers, smoking in shopping malls, blocking of internet, quality of medical care, etc etc the list just goes on...

With trouble definately brewing again in the area, are you sure you want to make the move? Just make sure that your eyes are wide open!

We have decided to move on. The money bucket is not full yet, but the other bucket that you get when you arrive here is full to overflowing....

I hope that this will be of some use to you.

 

[minrest]

[QUOTEContinental is hiring, but I see them furloughing in the near future. They are just reacting to retirements.][/QUOTE]

I don't know anything about Emirites (of even how to spell it!), but this pilot should check his facts on CAL. Over 320 retirements in the next year and over 2200 scheduled for the next ten (almost half the seniority list). Scheduled growth on top of that.

-minrest

 

[Sunnfun]

Yes, here is the message: All american pilots must stay away from emirates. It is not like a US regional. ALPA has no say. You are exposed to out of seniority upgrades. So, again, all american pilots must stay away from emirates! No exceptions! If you hear someone with a british or or otherwise european accent, step away and let them apply first.

 

[iluvetops]

I am a current EK driver and have spent 3.5 years here and guess what? I am enroute to freedom!!! I've learned it the hard way. Please don't do it unless you have to.

All the negative posts on EK are VERY TRUE.

 

[nimtz]

Something I've been pondering. EK needs bodies for all the metal they are throwing out in the next five years. Now certainly they aren't hurting for candidates, but it seems things are tightening given the increased need. Is there a chance EK will do what Cathay does and institute a degree of foreign basing? In otherwords instead of everyone in Dubai there will be subases in let's say JFK, LHR, SYD, etc...

 

[Plug]

I don't know anything about Emirites (of even how to spell it!), but this pilot should check his facts on CAL. Over 320 retirements in the next year and over 2200 scheduled for the next ten (almost half the seniority list). Scheduled growth on top of that.

-minrest

Yeah, I caught that and laughed myself. Retiring an average of 220 per year year for the next 10 years (that doesn't take in to account any early retirements for med. or other reasons, strictly age 60) and GROWING at 5%-7% annually (30 more 737-800's, 10 firm 787's with 10 options most likely to be exercised, 2 more 777's) I don't see the "F" word being used at CAL. Barring a major national or international disaster (read: bird flu pandemic or something of the nature) CAL is in excellent position. Merger is the only thing that scares being at the bottom of the CAL list right now.

 

[johnsonrod]

The fact that a Delta mainline pilot (not near retirement age) quit and just left for Emirates with his family is a bit unsettling because it sounds like he was suckered by the Emirates road show. Evidently there is a lot of misinformation going around. People don't consider the fact that Emirates CAN CHANGE YOUR CONTRACT ON A DIME. I have read that they can make promise after promise and then not follow through - they don't have to because there ain't no union protection whatsoever and their court system does not work like ours........... You are not protected in the slightest and if you leave, they will just hire low-cost pilots from the Indian subcontinent who are excited about the low pay (high pay compared to their own standards).

For those people who wish to read more about the situation at Emirates you can check out www.pprune.org and look under the Middle East section (look for posts mentioning EK). Flying a 777 or maybe an A380 one day sounds great - but not for that airline unless things change BIG TIME (and secured by a contract or strong union representation).

 

[furlough-boy]

Yeah, I caught that and laughed myself. Retiring an average of 220 per year year for the next 10 years (that doesn't take in to account any early retirements for med. or other reasons, strictly age 60) and GROWING at 5%-7% annually (30 more 737-800's, 10 firm 787's with 10 options most likely to be exercised, 2 more 777's) I don't see the "F" word being used at CAL. Barring a major national or international disaster (read: bird flu pandemic or something of the nature) CAL is in excellent position. Merger is the only thing that scares being at the bottom of the CAL list right now.

I thought about the same thing a few years ago. You'll learn

 

[Wesb737fo]

Wow,

(first of all "Plug and others" please relax, this thread isn't about you).

I recently saw the Emirates presentation at a job fair and came away with the same impression. WOW...10K+ tax free, paid housing etc. Great Deal!

I am glad to see a few folks telling the "rest of the story". I had almost convinced my wife that we could move to Dubai for 5-10 years and return to the states with alot of money. I had a feeling that it was too good to be true (at least financially).

The thing that really had me concerned was the quality of life and how expats were treated. I know you can't tell from a couple of internet posts
(I know ...ANYTHING posted on the net has to be true...right?) but I was a little skeptical about what I was being sold. Anybody out there with a positive take on life in the sand?