Flying into Japan and China

[leedwpilot]

Are there any corporate pilots that have flown into Japan or China? I would like to know what the costs are going into their airports such as landing fees, a/c handling fees, fuel cost at their FBO and any other fees going into their airspace or airports. Your input would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

Wow that can get complex.

If you are seriously thinking of it check with a reputable handler.

Japan Tokyo Narita (RJAA) is the most common stop. I believe paperwork needs to be in at least a few weeks before going. A wild guess at handling/ATC fees would be 10-15K, I have no idea about fuel. Time slots /curfews are critical. The Japanese have thier $hit in line and dont understand change most of the time. The actual flying to and from is completly painless and simple. The only headache is taxiing when Narita is busy. It can be downright comical. For hotels, the Grand Hyatt downtown is very nice. It can be an hour+ drive downtown.

China is a very common stop these days. US corp aviation is heavily present. Today we run into fellow pilots in Shanghai like we used to in Palm Beach! Again paperwork is critcal and fees are high. The Chinese also dont understand change and will just shut you down if they feel bothered. Handling is great, services are present and very adequate. Routing can be a bit strange at times, be prepared to be kept at very low altitudes for no apparent reason (read plan extra fuel) Security is great and hotels in the major cities (ZBAA,ZSPD,VHHH) are among the best in the world. It is a fast-paced, growing, driven, business minded society now. It is not you dads "red china" anymore.

If you have the ability, search the Intl database section of the NBAA website. It has great info on specific airports written directly from pilots.

Sorry I dont have more info on costs. Asia is one of the most expensive areas of the world to operate in.

All I can say is.... "if ya gotta ask..."

 

[empenage]

Wow that can get complex.

If you are seriously thinking of it check with a reputable handler.

Japan Tokyo Narita (RJAA) is the most common stop. I believe paperwork needs to be in at least a few weeks before going. A wild guess at handling/ATC fees would be 10-15K, I have no idea about fuel. Time slots /curfews are critical. The Japanese have thier $hit in line and dont understand change most of the time. The actual flying to and from is completly painless and simple. The only headache is taxiing when Narita is busy. It can be downright comical. For hotels, the Grand Hyatt downtown is very nice. It can be an hour+ drive downtown.

China is a very common stop these days. US corp aviation is heavily present. Today we run into fellow pilots in Shanghai like we used to in Palm Beach! Again paperwork is critcal and fees are high. The Chinese also dont understand change and will just shut you down if they feel bothered. Handling is great, services are present and very adequate. Routing can be a bit strange at times, be prepared to be kept at very low altitudes for no apparent reason (read plan extra fuel) Security is great and hotels in the major cities (ZBAA,ZSPD,VHHH) are among the best in the world. It is a fast-paced, growing, driven, business minded society now. It is not you dads "red china" anymore.

If you have the ability, search the Intl database section of the NBAA website. It has great info on specific airports written directly from pilots.

Sorry I dont have more info on costs. Asia is one of the most expensive areas of the world to operate in.

All I can say is.... "if ya gotta ask..."

The above post is right on. Read the bottom line very carefully. Our company spends over 20,000$ a month on AirRouting alone. We hit the Far East or India or both every month.

Good luck!

 

[GVFlyer]

I second G200's post. Get a good handler. We use Universal, but I think Air Routing is probably the power in the Far East. Japan is easier than it used to be, but they are a people who do not like changes.

GV

 

[G4G5]

Just call the handler. In China weather it be Universal or Air Routing they all use the same folks. Beijing for examlpe, only has one handler, Air China, so the cost becomes the mark up that the handler attaches to Air China's fee. You will not find a variety of FBO options.

The flying in China has become a lot simpler, the last time I was there was June and we did everything in Qnh. The problem like G200 mentioned was the inability to climb directly to your desired altitude. The Russians and the Chinese don't quite have things figured out yet. If you are going back to PANC via Japan then this is not an issue.

As far as Japan, I have found in the past that Osaka is the best tech stop. If you don't need to go into Tokyo, don't. Osaka provides a quick turn with a cheaper fuel price.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

Just call the handler. In China weather it be Universal or Air Routing they all use the same folks. Beijing for examlpe, only has one handler, Air China, so the cost becomes the mark up that the handler attaches to Air China's fee. You will not find a variety of FBO options.

The flying in China has become a lot simpler, the last time I was there was June and we did everything in Qnh. The problem like G200 mentioned was the inability to climb directly to your desired altitude. The Russians and the Chinese don't quite have things figured out yet. If you are going back to PANC via Japan then this is not an issue.

As far as Japan, I have found in the past that Osaka is the best tech stop. If you don't need to go into Tokyo, don't. Osaka provides a quick turn with a cheaper fuel price.

Universal is now also in ZBAA for handling, much better than Air China IMHO.

 

[G4G5]

I am pretty sure that it's the same person, Vera. She works for both Universal and Air China.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

Last time I was there it was "Joe".

I love how they all change the names....

I think I have met Vera, but my favorite is Shirley in ZSPD!

I couldn't tell ya if the prices were different, luckily I dont see the bills!