Flight school question

[flyallday]

Im trying to pick a flight school to do my training and something that I have noticed with the big expensive flight schools is the say there flight training is airline-oriented training. They also have courses that deal with Crew Resource Management.

I was wondering once you started flying the line if you went to one of these big flight schools did that airline oriented training and the CRM courses help you as a pilot?

Is it just a marketing tool? Or does it really help to go to one of these schools?


Thanks for the help

 

[mooser]

Im trying to pick a flight school to do my training and something that I have noticed with the big expensive flight schools is the say there flight training is airline-oriented training. They also have courses that deal with Crew Resource Management.

I was wondering once you started flying the line if you went to one of these big flight schools did that airline oriented training and the CRM courses help you as a pilot?

Is it just a marketing tool? Or does it really help to go to one of these schools?


Thanks for the help

Which skool are you looking at???

Mooser

 

[flyallday]

I was looking at MAPD and ATP as for the schools that talk about being airline oriented training. And have a CRM course.

The other school is Ariben but doesnt say anything about being Airline oriented training. To tell you the truth I dont even know what it means.

 

[taxicabdriver]

I don't know about the airline training, I didn't go to one of those big schools, but I don't know what they would do for the CRM course. I have found that is more working in a two-pilot environment. Getting along, knowing when to speak up, and creating an environment that is safe and efficient. I found it to be more people skills than anything. As far as the airline training goes, I would guess that it would be having a little more organization i.e dispatchers and a more strict ac schedule. Just a little more paperwork and structured on the airline side, but I didn't find it too bad of a transition. I know people that went to both the schools you mentioned. I know that MAPD has an interview arrangement with mesa, but I don't know if ATP has any of those agreements, the guys I know that went to ATP went through the instruction phase to build their time before they got to interview. If your going to go through the instruction phase, you could probably do it cheaper by going around some of the 141 schools. Good luck with the decision.

 

[norskman2]

I have some friends who've gone through MAPD. It's quality training, and with the guaranteed interview, the job is basically yours to lose by all accounts. On the other hand, you have to factor in Mesa's low pay and QOL. If those don't bother you, it seems like a decent option.

 

[moscowcfi]

I went to Delta Connection Academy, which is owned by Delta through Comair. It is very airline oriented, and I was recently hired by Comair with only 1,300/130 hours. We now get a free bridge program, which consists of airline-oriented ground school, including CRM, and 26 hours in a CRJ FTD, where you get to practice your CRM. I would suggest that you consider DCA with the others. If you are looking for a college degree, they have 3 campuses outside the main campus that are linked to college programs. I know there are many great ways to get to an airline, and it's worth taking a look at this one. They do provide free airfare on Delta (people often get first class) to come tour the academy. 1-800-U-CAN-FLY or www.deltaconnectionacademy.com. I know I sound like a brochure, but I had a blast there both as a student and as an instructor.

 

[flyallday]

MAPD and DCA

The thing about MAPD is Im not sure if I want to be stuck in FMN for 2 years. I toured that place and FMN looks like a hell hole.

Im sure DCA is a great school to learn. But I heard the price is around 60-80k. Also only something like half get hired on as CFI's

 

[MECH]

It depends on what you want out of your ratings. I worked at a 141 flight school for a couple of years, and found that the students that got most of their ratings at an FBO did not have the same knowledge level as a pilot that went through a 141 program.

The flying technic is different also. At a 141 school they try to train everyone to fly the airplane the same way (airlines the same way). They also use very specfic procedures. An example turning base flaps 20 degrees airspeed 80 knots. This is very similiar to flying at an airline. At a FBO it depends on your instructor.

Both have advantages and disadvantages. An FBO will be cheaper, but an airline doesn't know the standard of training that you received. A 141 school cost more but has a known quality of training.

Chose what works best for you.

 

[350DRIVER]

If you want the quickest route to the airlines then go to the MAPD program. If you can handle Farmington for two years (ain't much there) then you will be set, not much to do there other than drive into ABQ on the weekends. The program works and the job is pretty much yours to loose unless you fall behind and get written up. I have had quite a few friends go through the program and many of them have now moved on and are flying for other carriers after paying their dues at Mesa. Mesa is not a career carrier but a good stepping stone to get you to where you want to go. DCA seems like nothing more than a gamble that will take a lot of your money, do a search on the training board and you can see a few negative responses/lawsuit from a former student.



good luck,


3 5 0

 

[sf3boy]

I would say that 141 schools offer more structured training, not training that is in line with the airlines. You will not be flying base leg at 80 knots with 20 degrees of flaps with paying pax on board, or at least not for long. Every airline flies there own profiles and call outs, aircraft specific. Also keep in mind that some of the best and most knowledgeable instructors may or may not be teaching at a 141 school. Most all 141 schools offer excellent training. Next comes cost. If you are very wealthy, go to a school such as ER, UND or Purdue. These are good schools, but you will pay through the nose for the same certificates that you could get at a less spendy school. Shop around, there are numerous flight schools in every area of the country that offer a wide range in price. And for CRM training, the airlines really don't care. You will find some of the worst people to have in the cockpit are the chief pilots' friends, so that makes you the bad guy by default. They will have you sit through a FAA mandatory class to check the required box every year in recurrent ground anyway.

 

[TexaSWA]

The thing about MAPD is Im not sure if I want to be stuck in FMN for 2 years. I toured that place and FMN looks like a hell hole.

Durango CO is 45 minnute drive. Thats not too shabby. I didnt go to MAPD but had a friend who did. I went to visit once. Farmington itself is pretty bleak but everyone there seemed to party and have a pretty danm good time inspite of it.

You havent seen a true hell hole until you've seen Killeen, TX.

 

[moscowcfi]

'DCA seems like nothing more than a gamble that will take a lot of your money, do a search on the training board and you can see a few negative responses/lawsuit from a former student."

There are always disgruntled people everywhere. The fact is -- DCA works. Of the students that stick with it until the interview with the Academy, probably about 80% get hired. Of those who get hired, probably 90% pass a very rigorous standadization class. About 97% of the instructors get hired by airlines, and there are many hiring from us at this time, with much lower minimums than they demand from others. I know the people that complain, and they are typically jerks that expect that the high price tag means that they don't have to do any work.

Is it expensive? Yes. But most people who stick with it would tell you that it's worth it.

 

[boxjockey]

I spent time at DCA, at the time Comair, and Ari-Ben. DCA is a waste of money and their only hook is the connection with the regionals. If you have the experience, you don't need that connection. Even at relatively low time you can get a job at the regionals. I did my multi-comm, cfi, cfii, and mei at Ari-ben. Not a bad place. Quite cheap, but run kind of like a used car lot. Here's my suggestion for you. Buy an instrument rated airplane. Find a local instructor to teach you. Sell the plane when you're done. Pay for the time in a twin for the multi ratings. Then get a job flight instructing. You don't have to go through an academy to get the instructing job. This is what I would do if starting over. Take it for what it's worth and good luck.

box

 

[SpocksBeard]

The only thing that the CRM courses that I took in college prepared me for was to be able to sit through the CRM courses I took at the airlines. Thats it. Like someone said earlier; it just checks a box on your airline training record. Airline procedures and checklists are designed with CRM in mind so it tends to come rather naturally once you are put into the cockpit.

 

[moscowcfi]

I spent time at DCA, at the time Comair, and Ari-Ben. DCA is a waste of money and their only hook is the connection with the regionals. If you have the experience, you don't need that connection. Even at relatively low time you can get a job at the regionals. I did my multi-comm, cfi, cfii, and mei at Ari-ben. Not a bad place. Quite cheap, but run kind of like a used car lot. Here's my suggestion for you. Buy an instrument rated airplane. Find a local instructor to teach you. Sell the plane when you're done. Pay for the time in a twin for the multi ratings. Then get a job flight instructing. You don't have to go through an academy to get the instructing job. This is what I would do if starting over. Take it for what it's worth and good luck.

box

I know that hundreds if not thousands of former students and instructors would disagree with you. Just because you did not have a good experience, for whatever reason, doesn't make DCA a waste of money. It is in fact a very good thing that not everyone makes it through the program. Would you want to go to a school where every bozo with $60,000 would be guaranteed a job, regardless of their flying ability, intelligence or attitude? I went through the entire program. I had highs and I had lows. On the balance, I would not change my decision if I could go back, and I'm now waiting for a class date with Comair. Most of the students that I went through the program with are either already flying or are waiting for a call just like me. In addition, as an instructor I had (and still have) flight priviliges on the Delta system, which most of your FBO's don't offer. I can respect your point of view. What bothers me more are the people that know nothing of the Academy first hand but pass judgements on it like they are experts. By no means would I suggest that the Academy is the only way to get to the airlines - that would be ridiculous. But I would certainly recommend that any aspiring pilot would take a look and decide for themselves. Worst case -- you get to spend a few days in Orlando at somebody else's expense.

 

[Hose]

Just my two cents...

As an individual that went through DCA as a student and an instructor, I would have to say my emotions are mixed when it comes to the academy. Any flight school can give you the results that you are looking for if you work really hard. Does it give you a quick route to the airlines? Yes, but you still need hard work and a lot of luck. I really had a great time at DCA. The 90% of the instructors are really great and will help you out alot. The huge negetive is that over the years, DCA has become very demanding on the instructor when it comes to rules of flight and paper work. It also doesn't help the fact that they require you to do all of this additional work off the clock and when they do pay you it is very minimal. As long as you can put up with the Gestapo management as a flight instructor then you will be O.K. Just keep in mind that with DCA, there will be individuals that will defend the flight school no matter what others say and people that have had the worst experience ever. Really in the end it is totally up to your attitude and your work ethic. But hey, DCA got me where I wanted to be!

Just know that no one can tell you which flight school is right for you. I wish you good luck!

 

[upndsky]

I went to ERAU many years ago and I enjoyed the experience. The one thing I would have done differently is to obtain my private pilot's license at a regular Part 61 school. There is a big difference between a large 141 school, where everything is structured and many go-no go decisions are made by others (like in the airlines), and a mom-and-pop flight school, where you have to call all the shots.

Having taught at a small flight school and working for a freight company that flies single-pilot operations, I find that many pilots who come out of these Part 141 schools have trouble making their own decisions when it comes to the operational aspects of their jobs. As a product of one of those schools myself, I can tell you I found it to be a challenging transition. Of course, this is a moot point if you can go directly from the school to an airline, but there is never a guarantee of that. I'd say get at least some exposure to the "non-airline" world, so that if you ever find yourself in it, it won't be a shock.

 

[vmc-hound]

in my opinion 60k is a lot to pay back. Find a good school with people who care about your success. Some might say Delta academy is paid for training some say not but... which ever school gives you the opprotunity to learn and has enough airplanes with good instructors you can not go wrong!!! Watch out for some schools who charge by the hour sometimes try to drag you along to make you pay more...Get your prvt at a 61 school then do your homework...Don't get caught up in the "guaranteed" interview...Interview does not mean job...if they (interviewers) like you and you have the experience to back it up it does not matter if you are chuck Yeager or an idot they will give you a chance!!! Also If you can get on as an employee at a regional throwing bags or whatever you will not have to get the 1200/200 along with the rest of the world...internal applicants get more respect at interviews than coming from an academy and you usually know the company...It can not hurt to persue your ratings at a good flight school while working part time at ASA, Comair, Skywest, Coex whatever... just an opinion but whatever it is just keep in mind unless you have interest free financing 60k plus is a lot of money to pay back while res making 20k a year...

 

[weeks]

I'm an instructor and evaluator at a small but growing school in Scottsdale, AZ. Great place to be. Check us out. We'll save you a lot of headaches. CRM Airline Training Center.

 

[SIGman]

I would not use CRM training as a primary reason to look into a MAPD/Comair/ATP type program.

You get very little practical experience with it and a 3 credit course just teaches you the theory that could be learned from reading some good books.

YOU CAN GET GREAT TRAINING AT A PART 61 SCHOOL. There are MANY great instructors out there. And you will save thousand of $$ with this route vs a MAPD/Comair/ERAU/etc.

Here is what you get for you money @ MAPD/Comair.

-fast-track to the airline interview. Research the chances of getting the job if you complete the program. You'll find 80-95%.
-gauranteed to get structured/standardized training. Sure, you CAN get this anywhere, but good luck finding and instructor that can/will do it.
-get a degree in the process (Associates or Bachelors, depending on program)
-great-invaluble support from other students working through the program. Part 61, its pretty much an individual effort (in my experience.)

The pros and cons have been covered thousand of times on this board and jetcareers.com. I would definitely do some research before enrolling either way.

Cheers,
D