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Final 717 begins production

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I wouldn't say that Boeing was always better. Look how many DC-3s were built versus Boeing 247s. Same is true for DC-4s, DC-6s, and DC-7s versus Boeing 307s and Boeing 377s. There are many more DC-8s flying today as compared to 707s.

The end of the production of civil airliners in Long Beach will indeed be a sad day for aviation. Southern California was the home to many good aircraft makers for decades. The Douglas and McDonnell Douglas products still flying today will be our reminder of this great heritage.

It's too bad Boeing couldn't see their way keep some civil production in Southern California. A second 737 line was talked about but never transpired. The bean counters have salivated over the potential "one time gain" on the sale of that real estate ever since Boeing bought McDonnell Douglas. Never mind the potential of the facilities and experience of the workers there. :mad:


Typhoonpilot
 
I'm surprised they kept a line open that only produced 150 or so planes to begin with.

I gotta believe that the land in Long Beach is going to vield more profit than those 150 planes ever did.
 
They didn't mention who it was going to. Any Ideas if it'll have Airtran on the tail?
 
ultrarunner said:
I'm surprised they kept a line open that only produced 150 or so planes to begin with.

I gotta believe that the land in Long Beach is going to vield more profit than
those 150 planes ever did.
Click to expand...

They also build the C-17 on the same land
 
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typhoonpilot said:
No they don't, it's across the field and completely separate.
TP
Click to expand...
same company, same airport = same land.
it's owned by boeing
 
fletch717 said:
same company, same airport = same land.
it's owned by boeing
Click to expand...

Umm, no. :erm: It's a completely separate plot of land on a separate side of the airport. Same company, different land.

If Boeing sells the land that housed the 717, MD-80, MD-90, and MD-11 production as well as all the buildings on THAT side of the airport it would in no way effect the C-17 production, which again, is on the opposite side of the airport. :p


TP
 
boeing747-800 said:
Boeing was always better
Click to expand...

Maybe, but that won't stop me from liking the 80. At my last airline I was doing initial on the MD-80 and 737 FO's were upgrading into the left seat; they brought that old joke back: "Boeing builds airplanes, Douglas builds character".

Sure, it has it's quirks, but can't a jet that makes you work for it be endearing? I have flown a 737 sim and it was a very pleasant experience. I know it is beloved as well but they are plenty of DC-9 and MD-80 pilots who have affection for their aircraft.

Ever watch an excellent landing by a diesel or 80 pilot? A beutiful thing, I can't say the same for the 73. Just my opinions.
 
ultrarunner said:
I'm surprised they kept a line open that only produced 150 or so planes to begin with.

I gotta believe that the land in Long Beach is going to vield more profit than those 150 planes ever did.
Click to expand...

From the article: "The 717 model is the last commercial airplane produced in the Southern California factory. More than 15,000 airplanes have been produced in Long Beach since the plant opened in 1941."

There's been a few more than 150 airplanes produced there.
 
And C-17 production is on the chopping block too. Read a trade rag a few weeks ago that indicates the Air Farce intends to spend billions to update the C-5 fleet and will probably stop buying C-17's.

Go figure. C-17 has the range and speed of the C-5 and the rugged capability of the C-130. Nah, can't buy any more of those and retire the beaters....
 
Boeing may still produce the 737 but the DC9 family has been produced non-stop for 41 YEARS, I dont care who you are that says a thing or 41 about the type. Long live American airframes.
 
180ToTheMarker said:
Sad indeed. Always been a Douglas fan.
Click to expand...

Likewise. I was a Douglas kid-my dad, rest his soul, took me to the rollout and first flight of the DC 9-I got to see Hef's plane up close too. He always had a tough time getting his head wrapped around Mc Donnell Douglas-the whole Boeing thing would have been the end of him had he not already left this world far too soon.
 
Having flown both Boeing and Douglas aircraft I wound up liking them both.

Flying the 10's,30's, 40's, 50's and 80's as well as the 717 was still a treat. The 10's were little rockets. 30's and 40's was an airplane that once you strapped it on felt instantly comfortable. 50's always felt a little "sluggish" and never, ever reduce power to idle on the flare. Never felt comfortable in the 80 - just not enough tail for all that tube. 717's are awesome. Flys like a 30, zooms like rocket. Sips gas like a Honda.

I'd still like to meet the guy that designed the cockpit window lever.
 
The keys to Boeing are the controls, the feel, and most importantly the wing. Just ask the 747 drivers their ref speed. Now compare that to the MD-11..Douglas shrank the tail, could'nt make a fast-slow wing so the ref speed is much much higher...definately not a beginners jet jet. That's why UPS has a landing course on the MD-11 from a few scares. Very comfortable though. The DC-10 was a great bird... the -9's and the 717 I don't think compare to the 737's having flown both. The 727 beats all the DC-9's in my opinion.
 
j41driver said:
From the article: "The 717 model is the last commercial airplane produced in the Southern California factory. More than 15,000 airplanes have been produced in Long Beach since the plant opened in 1941."

There's been a few more than 150 airplanes produced there.
Click to expand...

Oh, I know that...but when Boeing aquired that plant, it was only producing the 717. And that they kept it open and took only a few orders.

Land is worth WAY more.
 
What's sad is seeing a part of history(DC-9 types) going away because so many believe in that Brazilian rj that seats 100. What if Boeing received another 200 orders for the 717? Would we still have the issue of rj wages for a mainline jet?
 
ultrarunner said:
Oh, I know that...but when Boeing aquired that plant, it was only producing the 717. And that they kept it open and took only a few orders.

Land is worth WAY more.
Click to expand...

Sorry to keep correcting people, but the above is incorrect as well. When Boeing took over McDonnell Douglas the Long Beach facility was still producing MD-80s, MD-90s, MD-11s, and had just started the MD-95 ( 717 ). Boeing did not market the 717 in it's early stages, they were still trying to sell the 737-600 instead. Boeing ( Seattle ), also had to be threatened by Lufthansa to make their desired options on the MD-11. More ( especially freighters ) could have been built, but Boeing ( Seattle ) didn't want competition for the 767 and 747 freighters.

Boeing didn't buy McDonnell Douglas for their civil aircraft production. They bought them for military and space products.

I never had the pleasure of flying the 727 so I can't remark on it's characteristics. I know most people who flew it, loved it. I feel the same way about the DC-9, especially the -10 series. What a great machine. I've also got 3000 hours in the MD-80 and loved those as well. I suffered through 2500 hours in the 737-300/400 and never really liked the airplane. The 777, OTOH, what a beautiful machine. The MD-90 Enhanced Flight Deck version, is kind of a cross between the MD-80 airframe and 777 cockpit. Best of both worlds.


Typhoonpilot
 
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ultrarunner said:
I liked the -80. But I liked the feel of 3000psi at the controls better. ;-)
Click to expand...
On the 717 we don't have to worry about manual reversion. We use it all the time! :)
 
That is indeed a sad story of a great line of aircraft. I think the narrow bodied douglas aircraft are universally regarded as good flying aircraft built extremely strong. How strong? Delta's DC-9-30 series had over 100,000 cycles on them when we retired them in 1989-90, then they went to work for Valuejet....Should of cut em up. I've taught flight crews on both genuine Boeing and Douglas aircraft. The Boeing aircraft are/were generally regarded as having better cockpit ergonomics and flight dynamics but lets not forget that Douglas pioneered an economical, reliable short range aircraft that introduced smaller cities to jet service (not including the short lived BAC 111).
 
I actually liked the MD80. I always got better landings out of those than the 717. BUT--I loved everything else about the 717.

Boeing had a bad case of NIH--Not Invented Here. McD planes were good because they were simple. Both Boeing and McD built their planes like tanks but Boeing engineered the crap out of them. McD made it work simply.

I still miss flying the DC-9's. They were good, honest airplanes. If there was one airliner I could choose to just take around the pattern and fly around it would be the 9-30.

Thanks Donald Douglas! TC
 
I'm still recovering from the MD80 to B717 "differences" course. Three sim periods and a checkride. Hard to believe they are the same type rating.


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