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FAA "Loss of Separation" Letter. (?)

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Badger

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Posts
95
Got a letter new yrs. eve from the FAA regarding a 135 flight 2 months ago claiming that a loss of separation occurred betw. us (Citation) and a Comair flight. (we were @ FL250).

I checked with the PIC to cross check our memories on the flight and there was nothing out of the ordinary from the controllers, no corrective statements etc.). I'm dumfounded & frightened that they've started a witchunt on me(SIC) and the PIC.

They're expecting a response w/i 10 days. Neither one of us has any idea where to start with this one. What a kick in the balls.

Any suggestions very welcome.
 
Kick in balls

It is. You should not, and must not, go it alone. You need to speak with someone.

TODAY, line up an aviation attorney. If you're an AOPA member, start there. Give a counselor a call. Explain the situation and ask for a referral. Look in your local phone directory for a lawyer. You should at least speak with an aviation attorney before answering this letter.

Also, consider speaking with your Chief Pilot. Maybe your company has some kind of insurance coverage.

Hope that helps a little. What a way to start out the New Year. :(
 
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Get a good lawyer! AOPA's plan is great if you have it, and you don't nessarily have to use one of their lawyers. They will reimburse you up to a certain amount if you use someone not on the plan.

Ok, let's think this thing through from a WORST case scenario, as the SIC in this situation the worst possible outcome will probably be a small suspension (look at FAA Order 2150.3, Compliance and Enforcement for specifics), I know that sounds bad but its not the end of the world or your career!

There's a ton of information available on the web, use it. Specifically get a copy of the Aviation Inspector's handbook FAA order 8700.1, it will tell you everything the ASI is doing or going to do, all the forms you recieve (Letter of Investigation, NOPCA, etc.) will also be there, these letters are in "cookie cutter" format and all they do is change the name and violation to fit the suitor.

All lot of the information available on the web, tells you not to admit to anything, and deny you were flying. Well, guess what? You got a letter, didn't you? I think they know you were flying, so while I'm not a lawyer, I wouldn't waste to much time looking into the "denial" strategy, its been my experience that the "denial" stategy only pisses off the inspector and makes them work a little harder, especially when they already know its you.

Now the big thing to do here, is to make sure you make no incriminating remarks, especially if your lawyer wants to respond to the letter of investigation. Anytime you communicate with the ASI, make sure you don't do anything incriminating!

Also remember you are the person, that can help your case the most! It is after all your certificate on the line! So make sure you research everything your lawyer, company, PIC, etc. is doing and make sure it is in YOUR best interests!

Good luck and keep your head up!
 
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Call your union reps right now. Let them deal with it. That is what your union dues are for.
 
Sorry, I read that wrong. I thought you were the Comair crew. Listen to Bobbysamd.
 
Wish I had good advice, but only have a question for you.

How could the FAA possibly know you were a crewmember if they have not requesitioned information from your DO or Ch. Pilot? Someone in flight operations must know something about this already? The only other way they would know who you are already is if you called the "advise when ready to copy this phone number" phone number.

(Unless your company files your crew names and airman id numbers with the flight plan?) Anyway, just wondering HOW they tracked you down.?

Would be good information to have for future reference.
\Thanks.
 
Like others suggested, get a Lawyer ASAP, and let counsel answer the letter.

If you are on a island free of lawyers and telephones, and insist on answering the letter yourself within 10 days, keep in mind that you must reply only (i.e acknowledge receipt), not confess or tell your story. Tell me where the no lawyer island is, I'd like to move there!

If your company has representation, great, but be careful, as they will represent the certificate holder, your company, perhaps at your expense. Accepting an altitude bust given to pilots may be cheaper for company than legal proceedings, maint records investigation (ie pitot static tests, transponder tests etc.). I personally would get independent cousel as CYA. Let your attorney decide how to work with company attorney.

Check out the book:
Violation: The Aero-Legal Resource Guide -- by James R. Campbell

Amazon.com has it

Will give you an idea why you unfortunately will need to spend $$$ on an attorney even though you dont recall doing anthing wrong. You do not have the "rights" that we all assume, ie. you are not protected from self incrimination in an FAA proceeding.

Good luck.
 
Crewmember identification.

How they know who was flying...

The letter came to the registered owner of the airplane...it contained the date/location/time of the 'conflict'. Our 135 records show who was in it that day.

The PIC WAS our chief pilot. However I hear some good points regarding his(their/135 certif holder) priorities vs. mine (still interested in a career). He's at the end of a career, I'm at the beginning. What's a letter to him if it saves the company $. Me...I get some BS letter stuck in my file that F$#Ks me at every turn in a career?

I like to think that some controller just really F##ked up and we have to be involved as part of the proceedings. Or does it sound like a lynching in the making?

On another note...with a letter of this nature, does brining a lawyer into the picture at this stage just make the FSDO work harder? I'd guess it would piss them off. Any ideas on what some lawyers would cost per hr. (roughly)?

Thanks.
 
Call the ATC facility

Call the facility that filed the report and get some facts. You need to know what you're defending yourself against--if anything!!

Maybe you remember by now, but, from what I've read, you and your PIC still don't have any recollection of anything "out of the ordinary."

Your poor lawyer is gonna have a hard time with that and I'm sure he'll gladly charge you to do some homework.

Here's my story:

I'm holding at the IAF after a missed approach, non-radar. Company airplane inbound to same fix. He's cleared to 8000. We're cleared to climb to 7000 and then intercept the airway outbound to our alternate.

We're very busy: running checklists, talking to ATC and company, reprogramming the GPS.

I can't remember who did it, but one of us put 8000 in the altitude alerter.

So we bug out for the alternate (and we have company traffic on the TCAS the whole time). ATC says, Say position.

We're 22 miles NE of the beacon at 8000.

You can guess what happens next. I get the request to call the phone number on the ground.

I do so.

Since there's no radar the supervisor has to go by our reported positions. He determines "no loss of seperation."

I figure no harm, no foul.

I go home.

Two weeks later, my boss calls me into the office and wants to know what happened (FAA investigating).

Long story short (I'm trying, really): I get a Letter of Warning in my file--should be removed in two years. The FO received nothing!

The moral of the story:

*You need more facts
*If this turns out to be nothing, why pay a lawyer big bucks to find out for you?
*If this turns out to be something, you may not necessarily end up with what seems to be a career ending violation.
*Most airline applications I've filled out only ask for accidents or violations. Some (Northwest, e.g.) ask if you have ever received a Letter of Investigation.

Welcome to the club. Good luck. Let us know how it turns out.
Sorry for the long post.:D
 
i've had three of these events, and my advice to you is NOT to engage in conversation telephone or in person. IF you send him a response try to get it out on attoreny letterhead and do not admit to any of the facts, only acknowledge reciept of the letter.

his objective is to violate you nothing more. every thing you say to him helps his case.

If you want to help him out you are hurting yourself.

the lawyer I use charges a flat fee. he,s expensive but whats a couple grand versus damaging your career? Think earning potential.

SWA app asks for "all violations with which you've been charged"

be careful

PM me if I can help.
 

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