Endorsements

[Joshrk22]

So my instructor is leaving today and will be gone for the next 2-3 weeks. Saturday night we did my Dual Night X-C and my instructor said my flight planning and flying was up to ATP standards; so he ended up signing me off on my Class B and solo X-C.

Well in my logbook he forgot to reference the FARs so when he got home he realized he had made a mistake. He typed up all the required endorsements and printed them on sticky paper, signed them, and then mailed them to me.

I read the FARs and realized I need to be endorsed for each X-C, which he did sign me off for. In the endorsement he typed up that it was only valid based on a phone call with him or meeting with another instructor. Can we legally do this? I don't want to get busted because we couldn't do the flight planning over the phone.

I plan on doing my solo X-C this Sunday morning. After that we said we'd go from there when it comes to my next solo X-C. I have no problem getting an endorsement from another CFI for another X-C, but I just want to make sure that this one I have been signed off for is legal.

 

[check6]

I almost want to say that as long as he reviews your flight planning(on the phone), it's ok to go assuming all the endorsements are signed.

 

[CutEmUp]

There are three additional endorsements required for solo XC. 1) Student pilot certificate 2) Initial solo XC 3) Each solo XC.

1, and 2 should already be done based on what you have done so far. As for #3, I think your instructor must sign it off AFTER they have reviewed your planning. I would agree (legally, but maybe not sufficiently) that you could review the planning over the phone, but how is your instructor going to give you a signed endorsement over the phone? Can he fax it? Can he scan/email it?

You could save the trouble and just have another instructor at the hangar (if there is one) look over your planning and sign you off. You should have your instructor see if he can get another instructor to meet you and do this.

Also, I beleive that I read somewhere in the FARs that endorsements have to be permanently placed in the log book. They can't just be written on a piece of loose leaf paper and stuck in your flight bag. If someone else could tell me I'm wrong, or reference the FAR if I am right, that would be great.

 

[Joshrk22]

CEU,

I have all of those endorsements and on the X-C one he said that this is only valid by a phone call going over the current weather. I could stop in one of the many flight schools at PTK and ask for an instructor to endorse it. The endorsements were printed on sticky back paper that are permanently placed in my logbook (not the sticky notes). And my SPC has already been endorsed.

 

[CutEmUp]

I understand the printed labels part. I was referring to permanently placed endorsements after I brought up the faxed/emailed idea.

I guess I would just not feel confortable as an instructor signing off a student from a phone conversation.

Also, the endorsement should read (according to AC61-65D) "I HAVE reviewed the cross country planning of..." It doesn't say "WILL." So if the endorsement is dated with a date prior to that of the flight, say a day or two, that might not look so good. As for the condition of the phone call, that is essentially contradicting what is in the endorsement itself.

Honestly, as a student you should not have to worry about this stuff. It is your instructors job to do what he feels is the right thing. As an instructor, I try to CYA as much as possible.

 

[Joshrk22]

CEU,

I just checked the endorsement and it does say "Have". We have talked about the flight and we are both aware that that is the only cross-country that I have permission to fly. We went over the route and such, just not the weather (obviously). He has put down some weather minimums in that endorsement, though.

I have about 36 hours now and the only thing I have left is my solo X-C stuff, so I'm guessing he feels very comfortable with my flying and my X-C abilities. I have about 13 hours X-C time as it is right now. But I do understand where you are coming from when it comes to an instructor and CYA.

 

[stearmann4]

Might be somewhat a thread jack, but does a CFI have to endorse a student to take the FOI and CFI written exams?

Mike-

 

[nosehair]

To the hijacker: No.

 

[stearmann4]

Nose,

I was under the same understanding, but Pt 61.35 says: "If required by this part, from an authorized instructor certifying that the applicant accomplished the appropriate ground training or a home study course required by this part or rating sought, and is prepared for the knowledge test.

So I guess I'm having difficulty finding if it's required by that part.

Thanks again,

Mike-

 

[WMUchickenhawk]

Because the endorsements for each individual x-country only have to be from a flight instructor saying they approved the planning why not just have another instructor at your FBO sign it? Surely there will be another instructor there that will be willing to go over your planning with you. This way you are also certain to remain legal, and its really no harder.


EDIT: Wow didnt look at the date of the original post. Probably moot now.