Eclipse Biz Jet Reviews

[BizPilot]

My fellow Brothers:

What are your thoughts and opinions on this little Eclipse biz jet?

http://www.eclipseaviation.com/500jet/images.htm

I would enjoy flying one of these babies for an outfit in the Midwest. Anyone have some "connections" for me? PM me.

 

[KeroseneSnorter]

You will see the Mustang in service long before the eclipse.

Last I heard they still didn't have a engine for the Eclipse.

 

[Corona]

You will see the Mustang in service long before the eclipse.

Last I heard they still didn't have a engine for the Eclipse.

The Mustang doesn't have an engine either, as it will use the same engine as the Eclipse, the Pratt & Whitney Canada PW615F.

It appears the Eclipse is farther along in its development, though I would always give the edge to Cessna. Cessna certainly has a recipe for bringing aircraft to the market and selling a lot of 'em.

You are going to see a lot of these small jets in the next few years. Many corporations and individuals who previously could not afford aircraft will be buying in., as well as replacing quite a bit of the existing turboprop fleet.

Personally, I think the micro-jet that has the most potential is the one being developed by Honda. Check it out:

http://world.honda.com/news/2003/c031216_2.html

C

 

[AeroDMB]

The Mustang doesn't have an engine either, as it will use the same engine as the Eclipse, the Pratt & Whitney Canada PW615F.

It appears the Eclipse is farther along in its development, though I would always give the edge to Cessna. Cessna certainly has a recipe for bringing aircraft to the market and selling a lot of 'em.

You are going to see a lot of these small jets in the next few years. Many corporations and individuals who previously could not afford aircraft will be buying in., as well as replacing quite a bit of the existing turboprop fleet.

Personally, I think the micro-jet that has the most potential is the one being developed by Honda. Check it out:

http://world.honda.com/news/2003/c031216_2.html

C

Some additional info and corrections...

*Engine Corrections*

Eclipse - PW610F - P&W 2nd to certify - Eclipse signed P&W deal in Feb. 2003 for new engine...New Engine
Mustang - PW615F - P&W 1st to certify

*Certification Dates*

From Cessna.com Press Release - "The Citation Mustang’s price in 2004 dollars is $2.395 million. Cessna has received over 200 firm, non-refundable orders for the airplane. Cessna anticipates first flight in 2005, with type certification and first customer delivery in the fourth quarter of 2006."

From EclipseAviation.com - "Eclipse will deliver the first production Eclipse 500 aircraft in March, 2006 followed by 260 aircraft in the first 12 months of production, 880 aircraft over the second 12 months and up to four aircraft per day thereafter in the current facilities."Press Release

*Orders*

Eclipse - "The company currently has an order backlog of more than 2,100 aircraft." Same Press Release

Mustang - "Cessna reports firm orders for 229 of the very light jets, with the backlog extending to at least 2009." AINOnline.com

*Comparisons*

http://www.eclipseaviation.com/500jet/comparisons.htm
http://www.ainonline.com/Features/newbusinessaircraft02/nba_eclipse500.html

Should be interesting to see some hit the market!

 

[BizPilot]

So do you think these "Owners" will hire "us pilots" to fly the jets for them? Or will they fly the jets themselves?

I hope these jets don't bring on more $20,000 / year salaries in this industry.

 

[AeroDMB]

So do you think these "Owners" will hire "us pilots" to fly the jets for them? Or will they fly the jets themselves?

I hope these jets don't bring on more $20,000 / year salaries in this industry.

No, the owner/operator pilots will be flying them mainly, however, some cases, they may be looking for experienced pilots to accompany them on trips.

As far as the salary, I think it's all going to hinge on the success of the air taxi operators, which is one of the largest segments of the new market that will be looking for pilots in the future. In terms of the owner/operators, pilot salary will vary depending on the type of operation.

 

[bart]

The Eclipse will bring new meaning to the term "doctor killer". Why can't they mass produce a "trial lawyer killer"?

 

[BizPilot]

Man.......maybe "Corporate Pilot" will be a thing of the past sooner than we think!!!!!!!

http://www.moller.com/skycar/

 

[mzaharis]

Personally, I think the micro-jet that has the most potential is the one being developed by Honda. Check it out:

http://world.honda.com/news/2003/c031216_2.html

C

Honda swears up and down on a stack of bibles that they're only trying to market the engine (they have a cooperative agreement with GE), not the aircraft. While they could certainly change their mind (in which case, if I were a competitor, I'd be shaking in my boots), I wouldn't say that it has the most potential until they actually announce some intention to sell the thing. If they wanted to be, I'm sure that Honda would be a formidable competitor in the airframe business, but they just haven't chosen to, yet.

From:
http://www.aviationnow.com/avnow/search/autosuggest.jsp?docid=6377&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.aviationnow.com%2Favnow%2Fnews%2Fchannel_businessweekly_story.jsp%3Fview%3Dstory%26id%3Dnews%2Fhon02234.xml

In announcing the flight of the HondaJet in December, the Japanese manufacturer talked about the aircraft's lightweight unified carbon composite structure and the company's "proprietary turbulence-reducing laminar airfoil," leading some to believe that Honda might attempt to win certification for its experimental aircraft. GE's announcement would appear to put that notion to rest. "Honda does not have plans to 'commercialize' its aircraft at this juncture," GE said, adding that "Honda does not have a business plan for the aircraft. Honda's priority is to jointly launch with GE the jet engine project."

 

[atpcliff]

Hi!

The first VLJ out is the Adam Aircraft jet, which is to be certified (& I think delivering to customers) next year. There are about 10-12 total designs right now.

Robert Crandall and an industry partner ordered either 75 or 100 of the FLJs.

Here is info on the training and insurance for Eclipse (from the "General" section):

I was reading this on:

http://www.avweb.com/eletter/archiv...ull.html#188539

Eclipse will get insurance for their owners by having them train at UAL:
"Eclipse announced Friday that rather than try to train its customers in-house, it's contracting with United Airlines to provide initial flight-skills assessment and type-rating transition training at the airline's training center in Denver. The partnership will provide "the most comprehensive flight training available in general aviation," according to an Eclipse release. "The training program will provide the level of professional pilot training normally available only to commercial airline pilots," the release said.

Cliff
GRB

 

[Corona]

Honda swears up and down on a stack of bibles that they're only trying to market the engine (they have a cooperative agreement with GE), not the aircraft. While they could certainly change their mind (in which case, if I were a competitor, I'd be shaking in my boots), I wouldn't say that it has the most potential until they actually announce some intention to sell the thing. If they wanted to be, I'm sure that Honda would be a formidable competitor in the airframe business, but they just haven't chosen to, yet.

From:
http://www.aviationnow.com/avnow/search/autosuggest.jsp?docid=6377&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.aviationnow.com%2Favnow%2Fnews%2Fchannel_businessweekly_story.jsp%3Fview%3Dstory%26id%3Dnews%2Fhon02234.xml

In announcing the flight of the HondaJet in December, the Japanese manufacturer talked about the aircraft's lightweight unified carbon composite structure and the company's "proprietary turbulence-reducing laminar airfoil," leading some to believe that Honda might attempt to win certification for its experimental aircraft. GE's announcement would appear to put that notion to rest. "Honda does not have plans to 'commercialize' its aircraft at this juncture," GE said, adding that "Honda does not have a business plan for the aircraft. Honda's priority is to jointly launch with GE the jet engine project."

These are very interesting quotes; I've read at least one of them before. Most of you may be aware how many Japanese companies do business: They keep their cards very close to their vests till the call, then...revolution! You're right-any competitor in the VLJ market would be quaking in their boots if Honda started building this jet.

Yes, Honda is going w/ GE to certify the engine; another wise choice as GE has far more aviation experience than Honda, despite Honda developing their turbofan over almost 20 years.

You have to admit the airframe has as much potential as the engines: Larger cabin due to the wing-pylon-mounted engines; Laminar-flow wings and fuselage. But most importantly, it goes 420 Kt @ FL300. This will absolutely DUST all the competition, and probably burn less fuel as well.

I guess the point of this post is: The VLJ market hasn't even started yet, and I don't believe all the competitors have yet entered the ring. It'll be exciting!

C

 

[mzaharis]

These are very interesting quotes; I've read at least one of them before. Most of you may be aware how many Japanese companies do business: They keep their cards very close to their vests till the call, then...revolution! You're right-any competitor in the VLJ market would be quaking in their boots if Honda started building this jet.

Yes, Honda is going w/ GE to certify the engine; another wise choice as GE has far more aviation experience than Honda, despite Honda developing their turbofan over almost 20 years.

You have to admit the airframe has as much potential as the engines: Larger cabin due to the wing-pylon-mounted engines; Laminar-flow wings and fuselage. But most importantly, it goes 420 Kt @ FL300. This will absolutely DUST all the competition, and probably burn less fuel as well.

I guess the point of this post is: The VLJ market hasn't even started yet, and I don't believe all the competitors have yet entered the ring. It'll be exciting!

C

You may be right; that may be exactly what will happen. Honda would need to be careful, though, not to antagonize purchasers of their engines. I don't think that GE would have partnered with them unless Honda was serious about selling engines, and Honda may antagonize much of their potential customer base if they were also producing an airframe.

UNLESS . . .

GE wanted to get into the airframe business along with Honda. Maybe that's what they mean when they say that, "(We) are taking a very long-term view with this alliance."

Either way, I think that we'll see a Citation Mustang or possibly the Eclipse certified before we'll see any Hondajet certified.