Welcome to Flightinfo.com

  • Register now and join the discussion
  • Friendliest aviation Ccmmunity on the web
  • Modern site for PC's, Phones, Tablets - no 3rd party apps required
  • Ask questions, help others, promote aviation
  • Share the passion for aviation
  • Invite everyone to Flightinfo.com and let's have fun

Delta vs ASA

Welcome to Flightinfo.com

  • Register now and join the discussion
  • Modern secure site, no 3rd party apps required
  • Invite your friends
  • Share the passion of aviation
  • Friendliest aviation community on the web

benjakes

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 15, 2004
Posts
65
I posted under Majors in the Delta thread. Not taking sides, so I thought I would post here.

please use lube when ya flame me
Few things out of the way. I am not a pilot. I cannot spell.

I am a VP of Sales for a Fortune 100. Loyal Delta, Platinum 1.6 MM miles.
I post about once a year, turned onto the site by neighbors.
I am scared to say, I have an MBA from Kellog.
I generally buy my tickets 24-48 hours ahead of time through American Express Travel. I used to sit up front all the time, but 1/3 to half my flights don't have 1st anymore.

A few observations:

I would prefer that we go back to the good old days when a lot less people flew, and you were treated better. I correlate the service to what I pay for nowadays. (On a side note, I have had more captains speak to me or come and thank me for flying in the last two months than I have in the last ten years. I love it, but am curious, was it mandated by ALPA)?

With the supply of pilots being so great, and a shift in the paradiym of the industry, I believe that pilots have to take control of thier lives, and careers.

1.-Your Union has to get strong. It is not. It needs to treat all pilots equally. By doing so, you will get support from the lower tier, and you can bring much more pressure to management. Currently, management is using the devide and conquer technique, very effectivly I may add. Look at the division on this board as an example. You have the "upper class" (legacy) who ALPA activly supports, trying to maintain thier wage and scope. Y'all refuse to let the "peasants" (regionals) into your company, or cockpit. The regionals just want to have a career path to the upper class. Since they don't have one, they make out the best they can today, and HOPE for better in the future. They have no choice, many of them went to the same schools the upper class did, but have less income to pay for it. If you all became one family, you could limit the supply, and INCREASE the demand of pilots, and keep all non-active union out, and your wages would top declining, and probably start increasing again.

Think about if the ASA, Comair, and Delta pilots negotiated as one. Yes some would lose, but the power you have is much greater, and many more would win, especially in the long run. Combine that with American, Airtran, etc, where the union would all equally, regionals and majors. Don't allow another company to do your flying. If they buy someone, make them combine the books and treat everyone equally. Embrace each other. It amazes me that y'all blame each other, no one fixes it, and management continues to bend you over.

Side note: House to left of me: Delta Pilot. House to right of me ASA. Both great guys, about the same age. Both my best friends. Great families. Don't talk to each other, both out of stubborn bitterness. I don't think they have ever spoke.... SAD!

2-The goverment needs to stop subsidizing airlines. If you can't make a profit, let a few airlines go out of business. It would lower the supply of seats, drive up revenue, and margin per seat, and save the other airlines. Again, a few lose, but many more pilots win.

3-Average income: Ok, for sake of disclosure, I make too much, and am management. I am over 200k. I HATE my job, and have to deal with morons above and below me 60 hours a week. I just want to point out to all that real income for Lawyers and Doctors has declined over the last ten years. The average income is less or comparable to pilots. Overall, y'all are hanging in their statistically.

All United StatesPhysiciansOverallPublished2004Jul$57.90
All United StatesLawyersOverallPublished2004Jul$48.60

All United StatesAirplane pilots and navigatorsOverallPublished2004Jul$113.82

*please see http://data.bls.gov/PDQ/outside.jsp?survey=nc for verification of above.

I'll go away again, but please keep thanking me for flying Delta, it makes a difference. It takes me back 20 years..... Now if we could work on the flight attendants..... I thank you
 
:cool:Nice POST! You make a lot of sense and I can totally see what you are saying. Unfortunately, most of the "upper crust" does not think the way you do. SAD
Thanks for making a well thought out post, one of the few that seems to make sense from a "non-flying" stand point!
Fly Safe!!
 
No thanks. I would go to jail. You will need a strike to stop this spiral to prove to management that you can do more than threaten them.
 
Very nice post there Ben. Unfortunately, it has become a class type situation. Majors are the Have's and the Regionals are the Have not's. Both pilot groups are equally trained and experienced*. It is truely sad that the pilots cannot get together and make a stand as one against Mis Management.
 
benjakes said:
Not
3-Average income: Ok, for sake of disclosure, I make too much, and am management. I am over 200k. I HATE my job, and have to deal with morons above and below me 60 hours a week. I just want to point out to all that real income for Lawyers and Doctors has declined over the last ten years. The average income is less or comparable to pilots. Overall, y'all are hanging in their statistically.

All United StatesPhysiciansOverallPublished2004Jul$57.90
All United StatesLawyersOverallPublished2004Jul$48.60

All United StatesAirplane pilots and navigatorsOverallPublished2004Jul$113.82

*please see http://data.bls.gov/PDQ/outside.jsp?survey=nc for verification of above.

I'll go away again, but please keep thanking me for flying Delta, it makes a difference. It takes me back 20 years..... Now if we could work on the flight attendants..... I thank you



Great post, just a comment about the hourly wages, pilots get paid a monthly guarantee of any where between 55 and 82 hours , so yes the hourly wage is higher but we only get paid for so many hours in a month.
 
jehtplane said:
Great post, just a comment about the hourly wages, pilots get paid a monthly guarantee of any where between 55 and 82 hours , so yes the hourly wage is higher but we only get paid for so many hours in a month.

I understand. It is why I said statistically. I know some fly over guarentee, others never get the chance.

For sake of fairness, SOME/MOST doctors work over 40 hours a week without OT pay. Lawyers work 20 and charge 60.....

It is very tough to come up with the numbers based on the info I have. I will say, though, that I referenced numbers with the hope that others would reference ACCURATE, NONPARTIAL #'s for me to learn from.

I also wanted to let people know it is more typical for a DR/Law to make 100k/year than it is 150k, or 200k. Always exceptions, but we are speaking of AVERAGES, as with pilots.

Thank you for your compliment.
 
Benjakes-

Your assessment of the Law of Supply and Demand does not consider the many willing and able to fill in the loss on the supply side. If Delta goes out, Virgin America is sure to act as are JetBlue and AirTran. Supply and Demand does not exist in a vacuum and the low cost carriers must be considered as readily availble potential supply, which would have less affect on demand than you hold true.

Otherwise, you're dead to nuts right!
 

Latest resources

Back
Top