DAL, Why Vote No???

[Superpilot92]

One can't help but see the train wreck coming.

What are the odds that one side will furlough before entering binding arbitration. Once the arbitration starts, it is guaranteed that the stronger side (anyone want to guess who that will be?) will point out to the arbitrator that the furloughees do not bring jobs to the table.

Wonder who will be wearing yellow lanyards first.

odds are 0.01% imp: Thanks for your contribution to the discussion though.:erm:

 

[~~~^~~~]

I heard that from a DAL B777 captain! It's what he was calling the dweebs considering a "no" vote on the T.A. to "gain leverage on the SLI".

Please, please, please, do not take the ramblings of an individual pilot as a representative position of the entire group on anything. Ten years later and I'm still hearing that RJ pilots demanded DOH and the left seat of 767's. To this day those now retired crew room big mouths have harmed our union's need for unity.

I know he was calling no voters dweebs, but still, the need for proper perspective remains.

 

[Occam's Razor]

I told you back in April DALPA was committed to a joint contract with parity before DCC. I posted the resolution, which you and others mocked.

Add a couple more layers to your history lesson, and we'll have the components for an interesting study in rhetoric vs. action.

"Mocking" is too strong a word. I was skeptical that there would be strong, universal support for "Bringing the NWA guys up" by the DAL group in a post-LOA 19 world.

Call me prescient.

Even you will have to admit there appears to be a sentiment amongst some of your brethren that suggests there might have been an "*" after those fraternal assurances.

* We'll pull you up if we can gain some sort of advantage by doing it.

I tossed out the scenario with my disclaimer. Ignore it as blithering from a clueless dork if you choose. I'll try not to take it personally.

I remember your skepticism and questioning of the order of events, contract first or SLI. I told you why the contract had to come first.

You did. You were correct.

If I remember correctly, you were busy at the time watching our feet.

Still am. That's what this is about! The music is still playing. Until this thing is completely settled, the "Walk the walk" requirement is still there.

The votes aren't cast yet, so how about you knock it off with imaginary scenarios and avoid possibly poisoning the well.

Does "imaginary" mean "unlikely" or "impossible"?

Here's what it boils down to, amigo: Do the DAL pilots support their MEC?

An answer other than "Yes" is problematic...as you well know.

I support MY MEC. I also support YOUR MEC, now that they've clearly "walked the walk" and upheld their promise.

Now it's down to YOU. As the commercial asks..."Is it in you?"

Every vote counts and I don't share your optimism that this is a done deal.

Will your pilot group then initiate Recall action against your entire MEC? How could you possibly tolerate a group that far out-of-touch with the goals of it's constituents?

You'll have plenty of time to let us know how smart and witty you are later, I'll even laugh at your jokes when you buy the beer.

Me "smart and witty"?

I prefer droll and waggish.

 

[JohnDoe]

Just read an interesting tidbit with regards to the belief in the "separation of contract and SLI."

Read a post from somebody that attended the roadshow in MSP. He asked this question specifically, and was told that if either side votes down the joint contract, the SLI starts over as well.

????????

 

[Noserider76]

Just read an interesting tidbit with regards to the belief in the "separation of contract and SLI."

Read a post from somebody that attended the roadshow in MSP. He asked this question specifically, and was told that if either side votes down the joint contract, the SLI starts over as well.

????????

It means the framework to achieve the SLI agreed on in the JPWA will no longer be in place. It would be back to ALPA merger policy or whatever system the two groups agree on in the future.

 

[Superpilot92]

It means the framework to achieve the SLI agreed on in the JPWA will no longer be in place. It would be back to ALPA merger policy or whatever system the two groups agree on in the future.

Which is another incentive to not vote this down because that will dump our negotiated SLI stance and almost force arbitration = not good for either side.

 

[ChoadSnazz]

So, in other words, you DON'T KNOW. You would be "surprised" if they hadn't spent time in the other seats. Hey, you said it yourself, you are a NWA pilot. Call them up, give them an FMS quiz. You will find out right quick.....


Bye Bye--General Lee

Hey General,

I'm looking forward to flying with you. I hope you're good at walkarounds and talking on the radio.

 

[michael707767]

Ten years later and I'm still hearing that RJ pilots demanded DOH and the left seat of 767's.

For the record, I know the official position was never DOH and left seat in a 767. However, I did have a CMR pilot on the jumpseat who told me that's what he should get. The RJ pilots were their own worst enemy during that period.

 

[BUCK]

How many did NWA hire post 9/11?

 

[Superpilot92]

How many did NWA hire post 9/11?

I believe it was only 190 pilots post 9/11.

 

[~~~^~~~]

The RJ pilots were their own worst enemy during that period.

Very well stated.

Occam (showing a lapse in his usually stellar judgment) risks a similar outcome by listening to and repeating unbased rumors.

The Delta MEC's communications are trying to downplay the "they got more than us" argument against parity in the JPWA. There was, and is, not some hidden agenda. IMHO they decided early on that there was no advantage to be gained by internecine warfare.

 

[JoeMerchant]

For the record, I know the official position was never DOH and left seat in a 767. However, I did have a CMR pilot on the jumpseat who told me that's what he should get. The RJ pilots were their own worst enemy during that period.

All that matters is the "official" position. The official position was to use ALPA merger policy. We all know that wouldn't have been DOH.

While some may have wanted that, it wasn't going to happen. The DAL MEC spread misinformation that the ASA and CMR MECs wanted DOH. That simply wasn't true.

Yes Michael, I'm sure you could find ASA and CMR pilots who wanted DOH. I myself ran into more than one DAL pilot who didn't think their squadron buddies should have to start in an RJ....There are extremes on both sides.....

The fact is, the "DOH" issue was politics on the part of the DAL MEC....

 

[JoeMerchant]

The RJ pilots were their own worst enemy during that period.

Very well stated.

Occam (showing a lapse in his usually stellar judgment) risks a similar outcome by listening to and repeating unbased rumors.

The Delta MEC's communications are trying to downplay the "they got more than us" argument against parity in the JPWA. There was, and is, not some hidden agenda. IMHO they decided early on that there was no advantage to be gained by internecine warfare.

My good friend....my how you have changed your opinion of the DAL MEC and "the RJ pilots" since you were a supporter of the PID and an RJDC supporter....How exactly were we....including you.....our own worst enemy?

 

[PuffDriver]

All that matters is the "official" position. The official position was to use ALPA merger policy. We all know that wouldn't have been DOH.

While some may have wanted that, it wasn't going to happen. The DAL MEC spread misinformation that the ASA and CMR MECs wanted DOH. That simply wasn't true.

Yes Michael, I'm sure you could find ASA and CMR pilots who wanted DOH. I myself ran into more than one DAL pilot who didn't think their squadron buddies should have to start in an RJ....There are extremes on both sides.....

The fact is, the "DOH" issue was politics on the part of the DAL MEC....

You could find a whole bunch. Even worse, it would have triggered an ALPA PID which would have tipped the scales over to the advantage side of the RJDC crowd, who would have sabotaged the whole proccess and acted like a recent NWA pilot group, only on speed. Their breath would have been held until arbitration, where it would have been released in their manure spouting drivel in an argument for DOH. Very unlikely that an arbitrator would have put all at the bottom, although that would have been a windfall in itself. So whoever was NOT at the bottom would have reaped a windfall at another's expense, which is a thoroughly subjective part of ALPA policy and violated thoroughly in the USAir/AWA arbitration.


Then, of course, would have come the sticky part of using all available resources to compel management to accept the list. There were not nearly enough resources Greenspan's printing machine to compel our management to give up their child labor boys and girls.

Those are two little details the RJDC crowd love to leave out. Two little impossibly insurmountable details I might add. Not to mention that our very own Joe told his very own pilots as they were leaving his very own company how foolish they were since down the road they would be junior to people they used to be senior. Yep, a boldface lie, a wolf in wolf's clothing.

You were two faced then, as you are now. You were wrong then, you are wrong now. You can't, nor could you ever, make the argument. I hope you got the memo that scope was going to be unchanged in LOA 19. Your RJDC boys knew all of this as well, and the lawsuit was about money to them. Nothing more nothing less. They got spanked, hard. The spanking will now continue. Some 700 guys could have flowed up, and had a soft landing in this merger. Now you are on the outside looking in. <collective sigh>

Buh bye.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Joe:

By failing to recognize and deal with the politics at the line pilot level. Herndon does not tell the Delta line pilots how to think, or vote.

Even the RJDC name sounds threatening. How do you think the NWA pilots would respond to the "Delta Pilots Defense Coalition?"

The Delta MEC is holding school on how to handle the difficult politics of a merger in a highly dynamic situation. Richard Anderson, Lee Moak, and those who run the show are a completely different crew than Mullin, Giambusso, Michelle Burns and that group.

If you notice, no bombs are thrown.

I don't know if you remember my suggestion for "I'd be grateful for a staple" buttons, but, that would have been a simple way of effectively communicating the expectation of what a pay, or equipment type, merger would have resulted in.