Crew Rest Seat Does This Happen At Your Airline?

[CAL EWR B737]

The following is the text of an ASAP report I submitted yesteray.

Background:


As per our concessionary contract our crew rest seat on the 757/767 is now three coach seats. However we are to get a Business First seat before any other non full fare B/F upgrade or any other non-rev. Approximately 85% of the time the crew rest seat in the 757/767 is in B/F.


Several months ago one of our Captains was intially harshly disciplined with significant time off for moving a VP out of B/F. After our pilots raised $10,000 in less than twenty four hours on our forum (www.Calforums.com) the company backed down and reduced the discipline significantly.


On the B737 we do long international turns over eight hours with an IRO. Our contract doesn't address crew rest seats however our FOM states the crew rest seat on the 737 is to be 1B or 1E .






Al, Larry and Kate (EWR CALALPA LEC OFFICERS),

I am forwarding you the text of an ASAP report I filed over improper 737 crew rest seat assignment and intimidation by SOCC to take a coach class seat for crew rest. I am also forwarding this e-mail to the EWR CPO due to the numerous and significant operational problems that occurred on this trip.

 

[CAL EWR B737]

I reported to C1 weather room on December 15, 2006 at 15:55 for a scheduled departure of 1710 for flight XXXX XXX/XXX . Flight was delayed until 1900 due to our aircraft being serviced by maintenance.

Arrived at gate XX at 1800 and met the flight attendant crew. One flight attendant informed me within the last week we had a fight divert to XXXX because XXX airport closed at midnight due to runway maintenance. I called the dispatcher to inform him of this information. He checked and advised me that I was incorrect and that Liberia was the airport with the time restriction.

The flight was further delayed until 2000 and then again to 2040. I then called dispatch again and asked him to reconfirm the airport status in XXX. He advised me again XX had no time restrictions only XXXX. Shortly thereafter we had an aircraft and gate change for an inbound flight that was scheduled to arrive at 1915.

At 1930 I boarded the aircraft and prepared for a quick departure. After the aircraft was nearly completely boarded the red coat informed me the flight may be canceled due to our projected arrival time in XXX estimated at 0010 and the airport was going to be closed for maintenance. Dispatch was unable to convince ATC in XXX to remain open until our flight arrived. The gate agent told me she was going to re-verify her information.

Five minutes later she informed me the flight was indeed canceled and instructed me not to communicate to the passengers the true reason for our cancellation and in fact told me to tell anyone who asked we had a mechanical problem.

The first officer and I were reassigned the next day to do a XXX XXX turn with an IRO that was scheduled for ten hours and twenty six minutes of flight time. We were given rooms at the XXXX and arrived at the hotel at 2100.

We left the hotel on the 0600 van on December 16 for a 0730 scheduled departure. We were operating flight XXXX and extra section to carry all the passengers who were on our previous canceled flight XXXX the night before. At departure time we were advised by the lead ground agent who apologized profusely that Houston had instructed them not to load any of our bags. Now they finally had approval from Houston and were going to commence loading the bags for a full aircraft.

While we were waiting for the bags to be loaded we asked operations five times to please have the cleaner’s bring pillows and blankets as our aircraft did not have anywhere near the normal allotment. Many of our passengers were European connectors from the night before and now were approaching fifteen hours late departing for XXX. Operations advised me that there were no additional pillows and blankets available. I then asked if they could have the cleaners remove pillows and blankets from another aircraft as many of our passengers were very upset due our cancellation the night before and this extended delay for baggage loading. Operations agreed and we finally received pillows blankets in short order.

We blocked out at 13:05 (8:05 local) and blocked in at 18:34 in XXX. We then did an aircraft swap and during the next fifty minutes expeditiously prepared for an on-time departure back to XXX. When my crew boarded the new aircraft we reminded the gate agent because of the IRO we would require a first class crew rest seat.

Ten minutes prior to departure the gate agent informed me that First Class was full with revenue passengers and Houston had advised her to provide a coach seat for the IRO. I respectfully informed her first a class crew rest seat was required for quality crew rest. I also informed her Flight Operations manual required a first class seat for crew rest. She left the aircraft to clarify with Houston. She returned five minutes later stating Houston said a coach seat was appropriate.

I informed her again I could not accept a coach seat and I required a first class seat for crew rest. She called Houston and when she was on the phone I asked if I could talk to Houston.

On the phone I spoke to the SOCC Operations duty director and another unidentified individual on a conference call. The duty director informed me we were supposed to have a first class seat but due First Class being full with revenue passengers we were getting a coach seat for the IRO, or the IRO could elect to remain in the cockpit.

I informed the duty director per the Flight Operations manual and because of our long day and short rest the previous night I could not accept a coach seat for crew rest. Now the second person on the phone instructed me to ask the IRO if he would waive the first class seat and sit in coach or in the cockpit.

I stated I would not ask the IRO, my crew needed the First Class seat for crew rest. The second person in a condescending tone said “why does the IRO need a first class seat for crew rest? I then replied the IRO would not need the crew rest seat as he would be relieving both the CA and FO so we could rest. He then asked how the IRO would relieve both pilots. I replied he would relieve one pilot at a time.

At this point SOCC authorized the agent to remove one revenue passenger from first class to coach. I then instructed the agent that she didn’t need to move a passenger from seat 1B or 1E as per the Flight Operations Manual but she could choose any first class seat which would minimize passenger inconvenience.

I feel this whole crew rest fiasco infringed on safety. While prior to the incident I was feeling fine the incident created undue stress and significant energy drain. Our departure from SJO was a MAX weight bleeds off improved climb on a special airport in mountainous terrain.

Due to my experience as a captain over the last seven years I was appropriately able to deal with this incident and refocus my attention to safely continue with the flight. However because of all our recent significant upward movement at Continental it is certainly possible that the entire crew could have been new and inexperienced and possibly could have allowed this incident and unwarranted intimidation to effect the safety of the flight.

Additionally what angers me, I am confident SOCC is completely aware of the crew rest requirements for IRO flights on the 737. I have been a captain on the 737 for seven and a half years and the IRO rest seat has always been in First Class and until today I have never witnessed a problem. The Flight Operations Manual page 5-21 clearly states IRO Crew Rest seats are to be 1B or 1E.

It is my belief SOCC allowed this incident to occur because our IRO was new to the company and they felt they could intimidate him. This good cop bad cop scenario SOCC played out with me was unwarranted, totally unprofessional and quite frankly infringed on my Captain’s Authority.

Flight XXXX blocked out twenty two minutes late due to the problem with the crew rest seat However we touched down in XXX on schedule and would have arrived at the gate within five minutes of scheduled arrival time if we didn’t have to wait twenty minutes for a gate an a additional five minutes for wing walkers to arrive at our congested gate area.

 

[FlyBoeingJets]

I don't think this happens at Airtran or SWA.

 

[CAL EWR B737]

Ok to further clarify does this happen at your airline if you have flights that requires IRO's. This is not specific to 737's but to all aircraft using using passenger seats for crew rest.

 

[cal73cap]

I reported to C1 weather room on December 15, 2006 at 15:55 for a scheduled departure of 1710 for flight XXXX XXX/XXX . Flight was delayed until 1900 due to our aircraft being serviced by maintenance.

Arrived at gate XX at 1800 and met the flight attendant crew. One flight attendant informed me within the last week we had a fight divert to XXXX because XXX airport closed at midnight due to runway maintenance. I called the dispatcher to inform him of this information. He checked and advised me that I was incorrect and that Liberia was the airport with the time restriction.

The flight was further delayed until 2000 and then again to 2040. I then called dispatch again and asked him to reconfirm the airport status in XXX. He advised me again XX had no time restrictions only XXXX. Shortly thereafter we had an aircraft and gate change for an inbound flight that was scheduled to arrive at 1915.

At 1930 I boarded the aircraft and prepared for a quick departure. After the aircraft was nearly completely boarded the red coat informed me the flight may be canceled due to our projected arrival time in XXX estimated at 0010 and the airport was going to be closed for maintenance. Dispatch was unable to convince ATC in XXX to remain open until our flight arrived. The gate agent told me she was going to re-verify her information.

Five minutes later she informed me the flight was indeed canceled and instructed me not to communicate to the passengers the true reason for our cancellation and in fact told me to tell anyone who asked we had a mechanical problem.

The first officer and I were reassigned the next day to do a XXX XXX turn with an IRO that was scheduled for ten hours and twenty six minutes of flight time. We were given rooms at the XXXX and arrived at the hotel at 2100.

We left the hotel on the 0600 van on December 16 for a 0730 scheduled departure. We were operating flight XXXX and extra section to carry all the passengers who were on our previous canceled flight XXXX the night before. At departure time we were advised by the lead ground agent who apologized profusely that Houston had instructed them not to load any of our bags. Now they finally had approval from Houston and were going to commence loading the bags for a full aircraft.

While we were waiting for the bags to be loaded we asked operations five times to please have the cleaner’s bring pillows and blankets as our aircraft did not have anywhere near the normal allotment. Many of our passengers were European connectors from the night before and now were approaching fifteen hours late departing for XXX. Operations advised me that there were no additional pillows and blankets available. I then asked if they could have the cleaners remove pillows and blankets from another aircraft as many of our passengers were very upset due our cancellation the night before and this extended delay for baggage loading. Operations agreed and we finally received pillows blankets in short order.

We blocked out at 13:05 (8:05 local) and blocked in at 18:34 in XXX. We then did an aircraft swap and during the next fifty minutes expeditiously prepared for an on-time departure back to XXX. When my crew boarded the new aircraft we reminded the gate agent because of the IRO we would require a first class crew rest seat.

Ten minutes prior to departure the gate agent informed me that First Class was full with revenue passengers and Houston had advised her to provide a coach seat for the IRO. I respectfully informed her first a class crew rest seat was required for quality crew rest. I also informed her Flight Operations manual required a first class seat for crew rest. She left the aircraft to clarify with Houston. She returned five minutes later stating Houston said a coach seat was appropriate.

I informed her again I could not accept a coach seat and I required a first class seat for crew rest. She called Houston and when she was on the phone I asked if I could talk to Houston.

On the phone I spoke to the SOCC Operations duty director and another unidentified individual on a conference call. The duty director informed me we were supposed to have a first class seat but due First Class being full with revenue passengers we were getting a coach seat for the IRO, or the IRO could elect to remain in the cockpit.

I informed the duty director per the Flight Operations manual and because of our long day and short rest the previous night I could not accept a coach seat for crew rest. Now the second person on the phone instructed me to ask the IRO if he would waive the first class seat and sit in coach or in the cockpit.

I stated I would not ask the IRO, my crew needed the First Class seat for crew rest. The second person in a condescending tone said “why does the IRO need a first class seat for crew rest? I then replied the IRO would not need the crew rest seat as he would be relieving both the CA and FO so we could rest. He then asked how the IRO would relieve both pilots. I replied he would relieve one pilot at a time.

At this point SOCC authorized the agent to remove one revenue passenger from first class to coach. I then instructed the agent that she didn’t need to move a passenger from seat 1B or 1E as per the Flight Operations Manual but she could choose any first class seat which would minimize passenger inconvenience.

I feel this whole crew rest fiasco infringed on safety. While prior to the incident I was feeling fine the incident created undue stress and significant energy drain. Our departure from SJO was a MAX weight bleeds off improved climb on a special airport in mountainous terrain.

Due to my experience as a captain over the last seven years I was appropriately able to deal with this incident and refocus my attention to safely continue with the flight. However because of all our recent significant upward movement at Continental it is certainly possible that the entire crew could have been new and inexperienced and possibly could have allowed this incident and unwarranted intimidation to effect the safety of the flight.

Additionally what angers me, I am confident SOCC is completely aware of the crew rest requirements for IRO flights on the 737. I have been a captain on the 737 for seven and a half years and the IRO rest seat has always been in First Class and until today I have never witnessed a problem. The Flight Operations Manual page 5-21 clearly states IRO Crew Rest seats are to be 1B or 1E.

It is my belief SOCC allowed this incident to occur because our IRO was new to the company and they felt they could intimidate him. This good cop bad cop scenario SOCC played out with me was unwarranted, totally unprofessional and quite frankly infringed on my Captain’s Authority.

Flight XXXX blocked out twenty two minutes late due to the problem with the crew rest seat However we touched down in XXX on schedule and would have arrived at the gate within five minutes of scheduled arrival time if we didn’t have to wait twenty minutes for a gate an a additional five minutes for wing walkers to arrive at our congested gate area.

I am glad you stood up for yourself. I am a 21year Captain at Continental and thankfully have never had this type of problem with SOCC. That's not to say I haven't had others, but not this exact problem. Never let anyone intimidate you, and always have a witness (your first offficer) to your dealings with groundstaff, SOCC or whomever may be causing you heartache. Remember, you are signing for the aircraft, you are taking charge of hundreds of peoples lives, you must ensure a sucessful outcome. It's good to see that Newark never changes ( rampers not being in place, or no jetway driver). You make up the time, they ruin the ontime arrival for you! The really good thing about EWR- THE OVERS!

 

[XJTAv8r]

I don't think this happens at Airtran or SWA.

Because AirTran and SWA don't have any international turns or flights over 8 hours.

 

[XJTAv8r]

After our pilots raised $10,000 in less than twenty four hours on our forum (www.Calforums.com) the company backed down and reduced the discipline significantly.

Do you know if that captain has pushed for a total exoneration?

 

[BID]

Two issues that just drive me nuts right now, PBS, PBS, PBS and the IRO seat! When Larry talks about working together, I feel they are just words.

Anyway, still love my job, some great people and great flying, but I just feel we have given up way, way too much in this last c-contract.

Oh and thanks for standing up for yourself! good job

 

[scoreboard]

Happens al the time at SWA, just not about IRO's. Good on ya for sticking to your guns.

 

[glasspilot1]

It is my belief SOCC allowed this incident to occur because our IRO was new to the company and they felt they could intimidate him.

All they can intimidate is the Capt. He's the one to make the decision.

Also the rest seat isn't just for the IRO! (At TWA we unofficially called the IRO the "Eater") When the Capt and F/O take their rest they're in that seat also! This is a chicken-s**t, Bull-s**t thing your SOC is trying to pull. Hope none of your Capt's fall for it.