Corp Jobs Contradiction ?

[bafanguy]

OK, here I go again. Just trying to understand. I get the message that corp job hunting is all about connections ( assuming you're qualified to start with)...you have spoken and I believe.

So then, when corp operators are looking for one or two heads, why do they advertise on the internet job websites ? They can't fill the position from local, known recommendations ? It's all about connections and they don't have such a limited number of local "connection" candidates available they can't find two heads ? You're supposed to routinely make the rounds of your corp community wth a fist full of resumes...you have to schmooze them over time ( like foreplay...sorta ), yet when they need two people they advertise ?

Coca-Cola is advertising for a captain ? Excuse me...THE best-known brand in the world has to beat the internet bushes for a captain in a huge corp town like ATL ? Coca-Cola doesn't have a huge stack of resumes from which to pick ? Connections ? You told me all about "connections".

And, Kingair jobs...what's the deal with that ? They're as common as fleas. And these operators don't have local talent lined up in the wings...panting and drooling ? I know, it's an entry-level airplane but so what; the world is lousy with qualified pilots in every town. Every day brings a new batch of Kingair job postings. Why ?

And, why is NetJets advertising for pilots ( twice in recent weeks ) ? A well-known frac actually has to appeal to the public for MORE resumes ?

I'm just an old airline guy, but I'm totally confused by the corp world. I'm getting mixed messages and don't know enough to unmix them.

I am, however, confident YOU will explain all of this...and I thank you and await answers to all sentences followed by a "?".

 

[Dep676]

I have heard and been told that corporate has to advertise for legal reasons sometimes. The position is usually filled before the ad actually goes out or close to it.

Just my .02

 

[Flywrite]

As I understand it advertising the job fills EEOC requirements and somewhat covers a company when it comes to discrimination lawsuits

 

[Gulfstream 200]

DEP is right on.

Many jobs are filled before they hit the public.

Some seem to be a revolving door of constant openings. (Coca Cola seems that way?) I dont know specifics.

But yes, rest assured, most interviews for decent jobs are still word of mouth and internal recommendations.

And NetJets advertising? well...who in the world wants to work there aside from CFI's? Anyone who has read the slightest bit of this message board over the last year would know that NetJets just is not the place to be....but again thats all relative I suppose.

 

[h25b]

Most jobs are indeed filled by people with the "connections." Usually the only reason these positions are advertised externally is due to internal company HR policy and/or legal req's.

I'm sure Coke has no problem filling the position.

 

[ultrarunner]

Yep, I hired two folks in the last couple of years. The first guy I hired I had know for a long time, and didn't even need to interview him.

Similar case the second time.

In each instance I used the CYA form HR provided, and advertised the positions.

It's just a legality bafanguy, so don't read too much into the adds. Networking is still the best way to go in the corp world.

 

[bafanguy]

In each instance I used the CYA form HR provided, Networking is still the best way to go in the corp world.

So, you're all just running from the lawyers, huh ? And, there's no point in applying for any corp job posted on the internet ? Okee dokee...

 

[Gulfstream 200]

NOT TRUE!

I got a 6 figure corp job a few years back on www.avcrew.com

Just applied out of the blue, happened to be qualified and local. got the job. Even passed it on to a flightinfo.com member when I left it.

But again, the better jobs in the biz surely go word of mouth - one way or another...

like any business.

 

[ultrarunner]

So, you're all just running from the lawyers, huh ? And, there's no point in applying for any corp job posted on the internet ? Okee dokee...

NO, I didn't say that. But you asked how it 'basically works' and I told you. What the F do you want?

If there was a job I saw advertised and I was interested in it, I would not hesitate to apply.

Corporate is just a different beast.

 

[bafanguy]

ultra,

Well........thank you for your input, Sir. What do I want ? Well, let's see. First on my list would be to not have to work with anyone who would answer the honest questions of a person who admits up front he doesn't know with, "What the F do you want ?".

Charming, really charming. I think you just told me everything I'll be needing to know. Thanks again.

 

[bafanguy]

Gulfstream 200,


Thanks for your perspective.

 

[HMR]

I found my Pt.91 dream job here on FlightInfo.

 

[johnny taliban]

Bafanguy,

I interviewed with a large corp about a year ago and during the interview the chief pilot told me that after the interview I needed to go home and apply over the internet for exactly the reasons everyone has stated (**CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** lawyer!!!). I was selected for the interview based on a resume I mailed to the company so my advise would be to mail resumes to everyone even if you fill out an online application.

good luck,

Johnny

 

[sleepy]

So, you're all just running from the lawyers, huh ? And, there's no point in applying for any corp job posted on the internet ? Okee dokee...

We have actually hired pilots that were interviewed as a result of our ads (no connections). We have also hire pilots based on internal referals. It works both ways, but it is a lot easier with the referal.

 

[ultrarunner]

ultra,

Well........thank you for your input, Sir. What do I want ? Well, let's see. First on my list would be to not have to work with anyone who would answer the honest questions of a person who admits up front he doesn't know with, "What the F do you want ?".

Charming, really charming. I think you just told me everything I'll be needing to know. Thanks again.

Well, sorry to come accross the wrong way. I guess I'll go run from some lawyer.

bye

 

[KeroseneSnorter]

bafanguy,

If you notice, even a 121 carrier advertises when Chief Pilot positions come open, even though to be a Chief Pilot for said airline you have to be a current pilot on the senority list and it is not open to a newbie off the street.

Corporate is not that different than 121. I don't know about when you were hired, but for the last 10 years at least, getting a 121 interview is all about who you know as well. They just throw enough others in to avoid a lawsuit.

Since you are long time airline, that can be a minus also. I managed to be at the right place at the right time. Even though I am flying corporate now, I still have airline stink on me as far as some of the big first class corporate operators are concerend.

I can't say I really blame some of them, I have seen some of our airline brethren act like they are still airline pilots with a union contract while flying corporate. I actually heard that some furloughed idiot from my airline started arguing with his new boss, over the boss smoking a $20 cigar on his 10 Million dollar airplane. You can guess who won that one. The pilot is back sending out resumes, and the boss is still smoking his $20 cigar on his 10 mil. airplane!

 

[sleepy]

Bafan,

You come across a pretty bitter. If you want a corporate job you need to change that attitude. It is not the airlines, where you may never fly with the same crew again. You have to work with the same small group of people for years. You spend more time with these people than with your own family. Nobody wants to spend that much time with a bitter former airline pilot that thinks the corporate world is all against him.

As the previous poster said, the connection thing is really no different in corporate than in the airlines. I would like to have gotten at least an interview at DAL a few years ago. I was more than qualified, but they wouldn't give me the time of day because I didn't have any squadron buddys (or Daddy) to walk my stuff into Plato. I guess the way everything has turned-out in the airline industry, it worked out for the best for me.

 

[ultrarunner]

Allright, let me start over. It's apparent from my harsh comments that I did not hit a good note with Bafan. For that I am sorry. This board should help folks in need and be of benefit...

So, while I can appreciate Bafan's frustration, I think it is common among folks that have been exposed to only one segment of aviation, trying to get into another.

When I hired on to my first Corp job, it was through networking, and I was clearly told later on that it was in large part by a recommendation of someone the CP highly respected. Simple as that.

But I also busted my behind along the way after that point. Heck, I had buddies that did airline interviews (AND HIRED ON) with 1000 hrs TT that had done an internships. I got zip in that department until I had over 7000 hrs. I did 4 airline interviews...two I got because a System CP moved my stuff to the top. Two because I just applied. Successful at one that I just applied to (if you can count being furloughed successful).

But never gave up along the way.

BTW, both of the guys I hired were furloughed airline guys. One I knew, as I mentioned, and one recommended.

As sleepy said, these are folks that we have to live with quite a bit, and when given the choice, I think we (CP's) will tend to always hire IF POSSIBLE, someone that is a known-quantity.

But press on. Work with the system as it can pay dividends.

hth, and sorry for giving you a hard time.

 

[bafanguy]

Bafan,

You come across a pretty bitter.... bitter former airline pilot that thinks the corporate world is all against him.

??? Not in the least...no reason for that...

 

[CarjCapt]

Twenty-five years ago it took networking to get my first corporate job. I had three corporate jobs until the last one sold the aircraft (I helped them sell it), I then decided to get an airline job, which I did.



Fast forward to today I'm back looking for a corporate job and I've found that nothing has changed. I'm out networking again trying not only to use my experience but also my personality, charm and big positive smile.



It is frustrating even today knowing that the job you apply for online or even through someone you know is already filled when the advertisement is placed.



It is the old axiom of “It is not what you know, It’s who you know.”