B190Captain
FUPM
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Comair sends a message....again...
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I was hard on some of you Comair pilots for not agreeing to hire furloughed DAL pilots, and I still believe that you made the wrong decision there. However, I want to commend you for standing-up to DAL management's outrageous request for concessions.
Maybe we at ASA can do something for you all someday.
Maybe we at ASA can do something for you all someday.
sleepy said:
Maybe if you had a full understanding of why our MEC did not accept the tactics of the Delta MEC Chairman you might think differently. DMEC has not treated you the way it has treated us. It takes more than talk to intimidate Comair pilots. Especially from a group of people that have been trying to opress us for a decade.
When we were out on strike, you guys at ASA did a lot for us. We are grateful and have not forgotten.
We wish you the best and hope you will be able to hold the line in your negotiations.
WorldSeries
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jul 1, 2002
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- 48
times are bad for the airlines so why would DAL want to add more RJ's to the fleet if they are losing money on them??? Its because they are not losing money on the RJ,s now,so DAL plan is to make more by getting more RJ's under a DCI carrier plus, have them take concessions to do it...they way I it if they can afford to get more aircraft 70 or so, the pilot group that gets them should fly them only if they get a 10% pay raise, since once agian they would not add 70 more aircraft to lose more money. they will make money flying them!!!!!!!
Comair Saga - Round II
The url below will take you to the latest round in the concession battle between the Comair pilots and Delta (Comair).
http://www.enquirer.com/editions/2003/10/30/biz_comair30.html
It looks like the company has decided to make an end run around the MEC by taking its case directly to the pilots and flight attendants. I don't know what the FA's think, but I have some ideas from the pilots' perspective.
What's really interesting about this is the "offer" of 83 new aircraft.
The truth is that Delta cannot place 83 new jet aircraft (of any size) at any DCI carrier or any combination of DCI carriers, without violating its current contract with the Delta pilots or first getting that contract changed. The current Delta PWA would prevent that kind of growth at any one DCI airline or at ALL DCI airlines combined.
Perhaps management has not read the Delta PWA. or perhaps they do not think that Comair pilots understand what it says. DCI is already very close to the "limits" of the ratios in the Delta pilots' Scope clause. Eighty-three new airplanes would certainly exceed those limits by a wide margin. They are making a "promise" that they cannot keep without first getting the Delta pilots to change their contract or simply deciding to violate it.
They know very well that Comair pilots are already suing ALPA over this very problem. However, that does NOT mean that Comair pilots are willing to undercut the Delta PWA. Either the Delta pilots first have to agree or the courts have to decide that part of their contract is invalid. Until that happens, I see little chance that CMR pilots would give concessions to break another pilot groups' contract. That's just not going to happen.
Therefore, this is a bogus offer from the Company. One that they cannot keep under that current circumstance.
The only other way to increase the CMR fleet by 83 or any other large number of jets, would be to take them from other DCI carriers and transfer them to Comair. For that to happen, they could only come from four sources; ASA, ACA, CHQ or SKYW.
Comair pilots aren't going to take aircraft from ASA. It also does not seem practical that Delta would gut a company that it already owns. For those reasons, I rule that out.
The other three are sub-contractors, but Delta already has contracts with them that would first have to be canceled. There is no guarantee that if Delta did cancel those contracts, the associated aircraft would belong to Delta. Delta would have to buy them first. It is not likely that they would all be willing to sell. Maybe ACA would sell the dork-jets, but I doubt they would sell any CL-65's and SKYW probably would just use them for UAL. CHQ, only has the ERJ product. That's fine as long as they own them, but for Delta to buy that type (ERJ) would only complicate the fleet and increase CMR costs. To me, that rules CHQ out. It just doesn't make sense.
Since SKYW is already in bed with United, they might well be the most likely candidate for a change. That would "free up" about 47 CRJ's + 33 Do-jets, which just happens to = 80. Pretty close. It could be done, without affecting the Delta PWA. If there is a way to do this, that seems to be the most practical.
If SKYW keeps their airplanes, then Delta would have to replace them. Well, how many CRJ orders does Delta already have on the books (deferred, etc.)? It just might be enough. Bombardier is hurting right now so it might not be too difficult to negotiate a "better deal" for Delta.
That still leaves a big fly in the ointmemt.
Even if the Delta PWA did not exist, Comair itself is not in a position to make good on any offer of new aircraft. Unless Delta itself wants to sign the Comair PWA, and unless Delta wants to buy 83 new aircraft exclusively for Comair and sings the contract with CMR pilots, promises from Comair itself have little or no meaning. Comair pilots know this. I guess management thinks we fell off a turnip truck.
It's just my opinion, but I think it will take Delta's signature on a contract to get any concessions from CMR pilots. Would Delta be willing to sign? I don't know, but they could if they wanted to. We live in interesting times.
So where would these 83 new aircraft come from? Any ideas? How do you all think this will play out?
It's a nice story. Hope you enjoy reading it.
The url below will take you to the latest round in the concession battle between the Comair pilots and Delta (Comair).
http://www.enquirer.com/editions/2003/10/30/biz_comair30.html
It looks like the company has decided to make an end run around the MEC by taking its case directly to the pilots and flight attendants. I don't know what the FA's think, but I have some ideas from the pilots' perspective.
What's really interesting about this is the "offer" of 83 new aircraft.
The truth is that Delta cannot place 83 new jet aircraft (of any size) at any DCI carrier or any combination of DCI carriers, without violating its current contract with the Delta pilots or first getting that contract changed. The current Delta PWA would prevent that kind of growth at any one DCI airline or at ALL DCI airlines combined.
Perhaps management has not read the Delta PWA. or perhaps they do not think that Comair pilots understand what it says. DCI is already very close to the "limits" of the ratios in the Delta pilots' Scope clause. Eighty-three new airplanes would certainly exceed those limits by a wide margin. They are making a "promise" that they cannot keep without first getting the Delta pilots to change their contract or simply deciding to violate it.
They know very well that Comair pilots are already suing ALPA over this very problem. However, that does NOT mean that Comair pilots are willing to undercut the Delta PWA. Either the Delta pilots first have to agree or the courts have to decide that part of their contract is invalid. Until that happens, I see little chance that CMR pilots would give concessions to break another pilot groups' contract. That's just not going to happen.
Therefore, this is a bogus offer from the Company. One that they cannot keep under that current circumstance.
The only other way to increase the CMR fleet by 83 or any other large number of jets, would be to take them from other DCI carriers and transfer them to Comair. For that to happen, they could only come from four sources; ASA, ACA, CHQ or SKYW.
Comair pilots aren't going to take aircraft from ASA. It also does not seem practical that Delta would gut a company that it already owns. For those reasons, I rule that out.
The other three are sub-contractors, but Delta already has contracts with them that would first have to be canceled. There is no guarantee that if Delta did cancel those contracts, the associated aircraft would belong to Delta. Delta would have to buy them first. It is not likely that they would all be willing to sell. Maybe ACA would sell the dork-jets, but I doubt they would sell any CL-65's and SKYW probably would just use them for UAL. CHQ, only has the ERJ product. That's fine as long as they own them, but for Delta to buy that type (ERJ) would only complicate the fleet and increase CMR costs. To me, that rules CHQ out. It just doesn't make sense.
Since SKYW is already in bed with United, they might well be the most likely candidate for a change. That would "free up" about 47 CRJ's + 33 Do-jets, which just happens to = 80. Pretty close. It could be done, without affecting the Delta PWA. If there is a way to do this, that seems to be the most practical.
If SKYW keeps their airplanes, then Delta would have to replace them. Well, how many CRJ orders does Delta already have on the books (deferred, etc.)? It just might be enough. Bombardier is hurting right now so it might not be too difficult to negotiate a "better deal" for Delta.
That still leaves a big fly in the ointmemt.
Even if the Delta PWA did not exist, Comair itself is not in a position to make good on any offer of new aircraft. Unless Delta itself wants to sign the Comair PWA, and unless Delta wants to buy 83 new aircraft exclusively for Comair and sings the contract with CMR pilots, promises from Comair itself have little or no meaning. Comair pilots know this. I guess management thinks we fell off a turnip truck.
It's just my opinion, but I think it will take Delta's signature on a contract to get any concessions from CMR pilots. Would Delta be willing to sign? I don't know, but they could if they wanted to. We live in interesting times.
So where would these 83 new aircraft come from? Any ideas? How do you all think this will play out?
It's a nice story. Hope you enjoy reading it.
There are only 45 new aircraft and those are for delivery through 2007. Therefore the 45 new aircraft probably assumes some increase in the level of mainline aircraft flying over that time.
30 aircraft represent the ACA 328JETs, and 7 aircraft are the remaining, already scheduled, CRJ700s.
30 aircraft represent the ACA 328JETs, and 7 aircraft are the remaining, already scheduled, CRJ700s.
Freebrd
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jun 17, 2003
- Posts
- 2,665
Remember that scene from Animal House, the court scene, when one of the frat boys coughs and says......'bull**CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED**' ?
That applies here with this new offer to our CMR brothers & sisters.
ASA pulled the same crap on us years ago with the ATRs. They (the ATRs) would go to someone else if we didn't sign off on the contract. Our group bit ,hook line, and sinker, and of course we have the ATRs. Should have told the company 'oh well, guess someone else will be flying ATRs".
Hang tough CMR pilots. I think DCI is using you to soften us up and attempting to intimidate us into a substandard contract. Don't believe it's gonna work.
That applies here with this new offer to our CMR brothers & sisters.
ASA pulled the same crap on us years ago with the ATRs. They (the ATRs) would go to someone else if we didn't sign off on the contract. Our group bit ,hook line, and sinker, and of course we have the ATRs. Should have told the company 'oh well, guess someone else will be flying ATRs".
Hang tough CMR pilots. I think DCI is using you to soften us up and attempting to intimidate us into a substandard contract. Don't believe it's gonna work.
rumorhasit
$11.25 per seat mile
- Joined
- Oct 13, 2003
- Posts
- 382
guys...whatever happened to doin it for the love of flying? Love the company you're working for...they treat you so well...you can fly for free...(laugh laugh ha ha)
Keep it up...you are the leaders in this industry in labor rights...Will the company raise your pay when they start making a killing...I think not!!!!
It's all in the finanical books...You think only enron had some crazy accounting? They have to be making so money or they would not be in business....
Keep it up...you are the leaders in this industry in labor rights...Will the company raise your pay when they start making a killing...I think not!!!!
It's all in the finanical books...You think only enron had some crazy accounting? They have to be making so money or they would not be in business....
BlueRidger
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- Joined
- Dec 18, 2001
- Posts
- 103
BlueRidger
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- 103
Hovernut
Home Based Again!
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- May 7, 2002
- Posts
- 720
huncowboy said:
Why, yes it is! I was bringing one of the new Seminoles up from the factory and training an MEI at the same time. We requested the GPS 9L and got vectored right over the top at 4000'. I had a friend's digital camera with me and saw an opportunity to kill 3 birds with one stone. A s/e approach, GPS approach, and a killer pic over 9L with the feathered prop! OK, don't freak, we did re-start the engine (those unfeathering accumulators are so sweet) and zero-thrusted it for the landing.
I really enjoyed instructing in the Seminole and teaching systems seminars to new MEIs and holding impromptu tech-talks in the LRC.
huncowboy
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jun 11, 2003
- Posts
- 616
Thx. I was just wondering.
I was looking at that runway and the tree line to the North of it, on the picture right of the runway and it strongly reminded me of Sanford. I flew there once on my commercial long solo this summer. That is the only time I have seen it as I am in Broward with DCA not at Sanford. Plus I saw the painting on the Seminole and your info and from there it was easy...
BTW I did not mean to hijack the thread.
I was looking at that runway and the tree line to the North of it, on the picture right of the runway and it strongly reminded me of Sanford. I flew there once on my commercial long solo this summer. That is the only time I have seen it as I am in Broward with DCA not at Sanford. Plus I saw the painting on the Seminole and your info and from there it was easy...
BTW I did not mean to hijack the thread.
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