colgan union-------question

[captboy2001]

for those that want to organize it...is it for changing the qual of life and better pay....what r the reasons....u think we need it....do u want to loose u senority # by merging with 9e?????????it will take 2-3 yrs to see the changes....and a union will not change the reduced rest overnights......

 

[Turbojet23]

I would like to make a few points that should be considered by my fellow colgan peers concerning this "need for a union" issue.

1) Has anything changed for the worst since pinnacle took ownership of us? No, infact things have only changed for the better. Information has been disseminated quicker then ever before, more Saab aircraft are being introduced as well as routes and bases, and a larger airframe (Q400) is in the works. These are only a few examples. Untill something disasterious happens there isn't a reson to lose money out of are paychecks to support a organization that would have no purpose but to profit off a company that we worked our butts off to build.

2) I agree that one of the hottest topics for the argument of a union at this point is second year F/O pay. I'll admit that Colgan wages, although industry competitive the first year, seriously lack. If management at Pinnacle is smart this should be addressed very quickly. This single issue could hold the weight to bring on a union. Combine a second year F/O raise with a smaller across the board pilot pay increase would ease a lot of tension.

3) If the need for a union does become apparent we are going to have to consider an organization different than Pinnacles ALPA. We would need to protect ourselves from both management and the few radicals in the Pinnacle pilot group if we are to remain an independent airline.

From talking to many Colgan pilots I feel that they do not understand the impact this will have on all of our lives. They more or less want a union so they can ware the ALPA lanyard and be respected by Mesa pilots in the crew-room at IAD. Lets not rush and wait and see what develops.

Remember Pinnacle Airlines Corporation is just that, a Corporation. They have a responsibility to make money just like McDonalds does. We are all employees of this corporation and must look at the big picture.

Check six.

 

[Flyer1015]

If the need for a union does become apparent we are going to have to consider an organization different than Pinnacles ALPA. We would need to protect ourselves from both management and the few radicals in the Pinnacle pilot group if we are to remain an independent airline.

It isn't "the few radicals in the Pinnacle pilot group" that are making business decisions. If anyone gets hosed over (with whipsawing and such) the blame can land on PT the Clown and management alone.

 

[Visceral]

I would like to make a few points that should be considered by my fellow colgan peers concerning this "need for a union" issue.

1) Has anything changed for the worst since pinnacle took ownership of us? No, infact things have only changed for the better. Information has been disseminated quicker then ever before, more Saab aircraft are being introduced as well as routes and bases, and a larger airframe (Q400) is in the works. These are only a few examples. Untill something disasterious happens there isn't a reson to lose money out of are paychecks to support a organization that would have no purpose but to profit off a company that we worked our butts off to build.

2) I agree that one of the hottest topics for the argument of a union at this point is second year F/O pay. I'll admit that Colgan wages, although industry competitive the first year, seriously lack. If management at Pinnacle is smart this should be addressed very quickly. This single issue could hold the weight to bring on a union. Combine a second year F/O raise with a smaller across the board pilot pay increase would ease a lot of tension.

3) If the need for a union does become apparent we are going to have to consider an organization different than Pinnacles ALPA. We would need to protect ourselves from both management and the few radicals in the Pinnacle pilot group if we are to remain an independent airline.

From talking to many Colgan pilots I feel that they do not understand the impact this will have on all of our lives. They more or less want a union so they can ware the ALPA lanyard and be respected by Mesa pilots in the crew-room at IAD. Lets not rush and wait and see what develops.

Remember Pinnacle Airlines Corporation is just that, a Corporation. They have a responsibility to make money just like McDonalds does. We are all employees of this corporation and must look at the big picture.

Check six.

A lanyard and the respect of Mesa pilots? That is silly and I can't imagine anyone buying that. This isn't the Colgan we joined anymore. The sooner you realize that, the better. PCL doesn't have a labor friendly record, so why would that change simply because they purchased us?

 

[PCL_128]

If management at Pinnacle is smart this should be addressed very quickly.

Pinnacle management? Smart? Was that meant to be a joke? See the Phildo clown picture in the avatar above.

3) If the need for a union does become apparent we are going to have to consider an organization different than Pinnacles ALPA. We would need to protect ourselves from both management and the few radicals in the Pinnacle pilot group if we are to remain an independent airline.

Why do you think you need to be protected from "a few" radicals? Do you think the few control the Association? ALPA is a representative democracy, my friend. A few radicals don't control anything. This Association wants to do what is right for everyone. We are looking out for your pilots, and we want to do the right thing. I certainly won't speak for the rest of the MEC, but I would push for DOH, and that would benefit your pilot group greatly.

 

[30West]

1) Has anything changed for the worst since pinnacle took ownership of us? No, infact things have only changed for the better. Information has been disseminated quicker then ever before, more Saab aircraft are being introduced as well as routes and bases, and a larger airframe (Q400) is in the works. These are only a few examples. Untill something disasterious happens there isn't a reson to lose money out of are paychecks to support a organization that would have no purpose but to profit off a company that we worked our butts off to build.

I don't think it's the "right now" that both groups should be worried about. Having been a CJ pilot for 6 years, I am one of the one's who "worked my butt off" to help build what Colgan is today.
But I know that now that is all irrelevant. Colgan is now under the control of a management that operates under a completely different philosophy.
Right now things are all touchy feely and new. But as they figure out how Colgan works, I guarantee they will ball it up and twist it into something as grotesque as the Pinnacle pilot group is saying things are on their side right now.
Change is coming. The question is, is the current Colgan pilot group going to take a pro-active or re-active stance?

 

[ColganCapt]

The biggest reason we need a union, and it should be ALPA, is because when the lists are merged - probably several years from now - we all need to be able to sit down at the table and get it done right. The current policies we have need to be put in stone and some need to be changed, deleted or otherwise and a few new ones need to be added.
Current QOL is not an issue, 2nd year fo pay is. Lets make a list and get it done.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

I would like to make a few points that should be considered by my fellow colgan peers concerning this "need for a union" issue.

1) Has anything changed for the worst since pinnacle took ownership of us? No, infact things have only changed for the better. Information has been disseminated quicker then ever before, more Saab aircraft are being introduced as well as routes and bases, and a larger airframe (Q400) is in the works. These are only a few examples. Untill something disasterious happens there isn't a reson to lose money out of are paychecks to support a organization that would have no purpose but to profit off a company that we worked our butts off to build.

The intent is to be forward thinking.... waiting till things get disaterous (sp) is too late. You can't inquire about insurance when the wx forcast turn bad and expect to get a call back.

Waiting to see if the tsunami comes and when it does as your M.O. for the need of a union is self defeating.. You can't have your cake and eat it too...

2) I agree that one of the hottest topics for the argument of a union at this point is second year F/O pay. I'll admit that Colgan wages, although industry competitive the first year, seriously lack. If management at Pinnacle is smart this should be addressed very quickly. This single issue could hold the weight to bring on a union. Combine a second year F/O raise with a smaller across the board pilot pay increase would ease a lot of tension.

If PCL magmnt is smart? sure they are smart... to thier stockholders. Not to you and me. We have been trying to get good pay for over two years.... They may just give it to you to create the whipsaw.... How'd that be? We've been trying to negotiate in good faith for years and you get a pay raise... if you don't see the bias in that then we are all screwed.. We have to be in this together...we get to carry each other....

3) If the need for a union does become apparent we are going to have to consider an organization different than Pinnacles ALPA. We would need to protect ourselves from both management and the few radicals in the Pinnacle pilot group if we are to remain an independent airline.

We don't need additional boundries created by other unions. You don't need to protect yourselves from your fellow pilot.... Not sure if you have any names of PCL radicals.? Perhaps your perception of radicals has come from reading this board? I can assure you the PCL pilot leadership is quite moderate and inclusive of Colgan pilots. We are all about inclusion not exclusion.

Remain an independent airline? that was yesterday. Your new world order is here and the PCL pilots are on your side. The same side.

From talking to many Colgan pilots I feel that they do not understand the impact this will have on all of our lives. They more or less want a union so they can ware the ALPA lanyard and be respected by Mesa pilots in the crew-room at IAD. Lets not rush and wait and see what develops.

No, they want a union so they aren't used to screw PCL pilots. They want a union cause they don't want to be screwed themselves. Repsresentation is a fundamental right in this country...if you choose to exercise it...

Remember Pinnacle Airlines Corporation is just that, a Corporation. They have a responsibility to make money just like McDonalds does. We are all employees of this corporation and must look at the big picture.

Agreed. They have a responsibility to make money. Not to you or your quality of life. Recall, if we have something then PCL management doesn't have everything. We are not repsected as pilots. We are viewed as a cost that must be controlled and lowered. Pathetic but true. The only difference between us and a baggage cart is the baggage cart doesn't question decisions and doesn't require healthcare.... If airline management could get a baggage cart to fly a jet they would...

Check six.

No. check 12. Look ahead... the future is now.

 

[Kaman]

"Pilots are marginal costs of business" paraphrasing Stephen Wolff formerly of Flying Tigers, Republic (Southern/North Central), UAL and USAirways. The type of CEO running most airlines are a far cry from the pioneers of the 30's-70's. They see themselves as doing exactly what the Board of Directors appointed them to do. Raise the stock price. Look at what Doug Parker has done for USAirways, and your P.T. at Pinnacle. If they don't do it, someone else will and at the expense of their best assets. People. Pretty damned jacked up, but has become painfully apparent in my 3 years in the airline business.

 

[Mr Wu]

To answer the original question,before this thread fills up with Pinna$$holes, there are really only two reasons for a union at 9L (that's Colgan's identifier, for you that don't know).

1. Block intergration of the seniorioty lists.

2. Block another Pinnacle Airlines Corp. subsidiary from inposing their scope on us.

I couldn't give a rat's a$$ about anything else right now and couldn't care less if these were the only two clauses in any contract we signed.