Colgan air crash

[edooley]

Hello,
My name is Emily Dooley and I am a reporter with the Cape Cod Times in Massachusetts. I've been covering the Colgan Air crash that happened off Yarmouth in August 2003. Robert Dean, brother of Steven Dean, suggested I post a thread here because I am looking for former or current Colgan employees who may be willing to chat with me. I can be reached at [email protected] or at 508-862-1163.
Thanks, Emily

 

[ASH]

Emily,


Just a tittle of advice. This is a VERY small industry, and things have a way of bitting people. To give you any insight ON THE RECORD could prove to be prof. suicide, or at a minimum unwise. Either get the official NTSB report, or do some of that snooping around, but don't request an employee, or former employee STILL in the industry to comment.

 

[chperplt]

ASH

How's the new gig going?

 

[edooley]

Thanks, Ash,

I know it will be tough to find someone. I don't want anyone to get in trouble for talking with me. I've got much of the docket, but still wanted some knowledgable people to speak with. Understanding aviation is a new thing for me, so I was seeking out people in the know. I'll tread carefully, Emily

 

[bailout]

You should write something about how junior regional pilots need food stamps to survive. Im sure the general public would love to know that the pilot in the front of the Beech 1900 they are riding in makes @$16,000 a year.

 

[TCAS]

It continues to amaze me that some pilots think the general public cares about how little money a regional airline pilot makes. All they care about is getting a cheap ticket on a safe airline. Until which time you can show a correlation between low pay and safety nobody will care about pay rates.

Regional airline pay will not change until pilots refuse to take a job that pays $16,000 a year after spending many times that in training costs to reach that position. Believe me, hospital administrators would love to pay a physician $16,000 a year. The fact is though no physician will work for that kind of money.

We, as pilots, are our own worst enemy. Until we stop agreeing to work for theses ridiculous salaries management will continue to pay them. If this reporter did a story on regional pilot pay the only conclusion the general public would reach is how stupid pilots are to work for that kind of money.

 

[chperplt]

Until which time you can show a correlation between low pay and safety nobody will care about pay rates.

Are you saying that such a correlation exists?

 

[mmmdonut]

Hey Em,


Any one of us would be glad to talk to you about flying, specific airplanes, etc. until we're blue in the face or until you pass out from boredom.

But you'll be hard pressed to find anyone who would say anything even remotely incriminating about a fellow pilot. Especially on the record. I'm guessing that's what you're going after. Few reporters cling to a story for 9 months only to report happy news.

Good luck though!

 

[chperplt]

I don't believe Emily is looking for information about Scott or Steve. I think she is seeking information about the company and it's day to day operational philosophies.

 

[Jetmech41]

Hey dude

Hey chper did you read the private message I sent you? I just saw that you were on here and wanted you to read it just in case you didnt notice it. later

 

[Capn Lucky]

Heaven help the pilot who said "I flew an unsafe aircraft" or "X comany made me do something illegal". He or she would be doing some explaining to the FAA in short order and the subject company would be none the worse.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

Like the public cares that tool up front makes 16K/yr

Nobody put a gun to his head and said "get up there and fly monkeyboy"

pllllease...

you made your $hitty 16K/yr bed, now sleep in it.

 

[flying4food]

Emily,



What you should write about is the conditions that regional pilots must work in!! Duty hours which are longer because they fly 30 passengers or less!! Are 30 lives less important than say 50 or 240?? If a pilot must fly 19 passengers around below 25,000 feet in the clouds without an auto-pilot, logging 2 to 4 hours of instrument time, shooting multiple approaches to minimums, he/she will be pretty burned out by the end of the day!! Who would you think has a harder job, the guy in the 737 that turns on the auto-pilot and climbs to 33,000 feet or the guy in the 1900 that is getting bounced and kicked around at 21,000 feet hand flying.



Certainly the guy in the 737 has paid his dues and earned his position, my point is that the duty and flight time limits should take into consideration these factors. I imagine some of these 19 seat operators have some political pull to keep the 121 reg’s in their favor!! My point isn’t that the guy flying the airplane is only making $16,000 a year, my concern is how tired that guy is, particularly at the end of a long day of hand flying, multiple legs, not to mention he’s on his 6th straight day of work.



It’s not easy calling the scheduler and telling them you are too tired to fly the last leg because you are tired. Why should a carrier be allowed to fly pilots with minimum rest and reduced rest, 8,9 or 10 hours of rest depending upon how many hours the pilot has previously worked. I think we all know that 8 hours of crew rest normally equals approx 4 or 5 hours of sleep. Most of these 19 seat carriers schedule their pilots this way every workday.



Unfortunately when a mishap/accident occurs, and the cause is contributed to pilot error, is it because he was not properly trained or was he/she too tired to recognize something going wrong. Or could it be pilot fatigue? Most of the time the investigators are never able to determine. How many guys/gals are going to admit I was fatigud and forgot to put the gear down, or I was not on my game when I mis-read the MDA on the approach plate and slammed into the ground 3 miles short of the runway!



Something to consider!!!!

 

[English]

The general public really isn't informed as to what "rest" is. If I were a layman, and you told me you had 8 hours rest, I wouldn't think it was that big of a deal. Look at the rules for truck drivers.

However, if you were to say that your eight hours of rest translated into 6 hours behind the hotel room door, and five hours of sleep...well, that is something most can understand and would be shocked to learn of.

 

[Trash8Mofo]

Regional airline pay will not change until pilots refuse to take a job that pays $16,000 a year after spending many times that in training costs to reach that position. Believe me, hospital administrators would love to pay a physician $16,000 a year. The fact is though no physician will work for that kind of money.

We, as pilots, are our own worst enemy. Until we stop agreeing to work for theses ridiculous salaries management will continue to pay them.

It's simply demand and supply. A physician has to have a 4.0 in grade school thur college to have a shot at med school. One must do very good at the MCAT (3 shots at that test; no go; you are out). Assuming you dont go crazy and died of sleep deprivation while in med school, you still have to make a good showing at the residency.
Requirments to become a pilot. 1) $40G in da pocket. 2) Check out the local flight school and its wide selection of crappy 150s and cherokees. 3) pay up, stay put, hang tight for the career ride. Sure it take some skills to pilot and command, but there are no "weed-out" process similar to going to med school. While I am not selling short on my captainship, but I know there is an infinite supply of numb nuts who would eagerly trade in the cherokee for my job. Meanwhile, some of my "wiser" fellow pilots are just as eager to replace the 737 with RJs. No Degree, no problem. You can get one online. As long as there are no restriction on the supply of rookie pilots, the pay will continue to decline.

 

[wheelsup]

Supply and demand - that's b.s. Why are major airlines salaries so high? I'd wager there are more pilots that want to work for Delta, United, and Continental etc. than ANY regional carrier. The wages are low because the companies can't afford to pay pilots more, and the unions aren't doing a good job of forcing the company to cough up more dough - simple as that.

By your reasoning ALL pilot positions should be low paying (especially after 9/11). I don't buy it.

~wheelsup

 

[capt. megadeth]

The public may not care that regional pilots don't make diddly, but it would be nice to see a news article that said it instead of the $300,000 a year bull$hit that I always see. That way I don't have to hear about how "in the money" my fiancee is when he is working 30 days a month (between 2 jobs) just to pay the **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** mortgage.

 

[bailout]

>> Believe me, hospital administrators would love to pay a physician $16,000 a year.<<

You missed the point.

Would you want to get heart surgery from a doctor who makes $16,000 a year?

Or how would you feel after heart surgery, if you just found out that the doctor who operated on you makes only $16K a year?
>>Like the public cares that tool up front makes 16K/yr

Nobody put a gun to his head and said "get up there and fly monkeyboy"

pllllease...

you made your $hitty 16K/yr bed, now sleep in it.<<

Have you really even SEEN a Gulfstream pretty boy?

I can assure you, they CARE. I dont work there and I care. The intent was not to get everyone a raise, it was just to inform.
Yesterday 18:51

 

[ASH]

Chprplt:


Going great dude...at CHQ now ....gooooo TACO ROCKET!!

 

[~~~^~~~]

Actually truck drivers are required to have 10 hours of rest, which is more than we get!

NASA did a study and determined that pilots flying over 12 hours of duty have the same congnitive, memory and decision making deficit that pilots do after drinking two beers. As the study progressed to 16 hours the Pilots' reaction and decision making abilities rendered them about as effective as folks with pretty high blood alcohol levels.

Of course any airline would fire a pilot for drinking on the job, but they sure don't hesitate to schedule you for 14 and fly you to 16 hours on duty.

If anyone is interested, they can search Dr. Rosekind, NASA's Fatique Countermeasures Program, or call them at 650-604-6435 for more information. There is also a good article in the March 2003 ALPA Air Line Pilot Magazine.