CAL Memo on Open Time

[CitationLover]

There was a memo by CAL ALPA re: the perils of open time pick up and how it can be detrimental to negotiations with low staffing levels. It was about a year or so ago. Can anyone post that memo or a link to it?

 

[General Lee]

There was a memo by CAL ALPA re: the perils of open time pick up and how it can be detrimental to negotiations with low staffing levels. It was about a year or so ago. Can anyone post that memo or a link to it?

We were actually sued and LOST for not doing the Status Quo with open time. Even though it was during the Holidays and maybe more pilots wanted to stay with their families during that time, we were sued and LOST. If you ever are in the same situation, try not to have the court case brought up in a Georgia Court.....


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[CitationLover]

We were actually sued and LOST for not doing the Status Quo with open time. Even though it was during the Holidays and maybe more pilots wanted to stay with their families during that time, we were sued and LOST. If you ever are in the same situation, try not to have the court case brought up in a Georgia Court.....


Bye Bye--General Lee

Yes I had heard. The tone of this memo was more about how open time can affect staffing levels and "while it is your right to pick it up, it might not be in your long term interest.....".

 

[Dizel8]

We were actually sued and LOST for not doing the Status Quo with open time. Even though it was during the Holidays and maybe more pilots wanted to stay with their families during that time, we were sued and LOST. If you ever are in the same situation, try not to have the court case brought up in a Georgia Court.....


Bye Bye--General Lee

Considering DAL pilots pick up open time while people are on furlough, seems only fair you lost!

 

[CitationLover]

Considering DAL pilots pick up open time while people are on furlough, seems only fair you lost!

We will soon see this plague infest Midwest.

 

[FmrFreightDog]

We were actually sued and LOST for not doing the Status Quo with open time. Even though it was during the Holidays and maybe more pilots wanted to stay with their families during that time, we were sued and LOST. If you ever are in the same situation, try not to have the court case brought up in a Georgia Court.....


Bye Bye--General Lee

Which goes down as the second worst Georgia Court decision in recent memory....

The first (for all my fellow Cobb-ers) would be the "evolution is a theory disputed by many" sticker that was slapped on every science book in the county.

Real wise bunch, those Georgia judges.

 

[JohnQ]

Which goes down as the second worst Georgia Court decision in recent memory....

The first (for all my fellow Cobb-ers) would be the "evolution is a theory disputed by many" sticker that was slapped on every science book in the county.

Real wise bunch, those Georgia judges.

GL,

Your memory is clouded. We were not sued for "not flying OT." We were sued because there was an active and hostile grass-roots movement to discourage OT flying. Any one who picked up open time was picked on, nasty anonymous notes left in his file, schedules posted on bulletin boards, etc.

There is a huge problem with that. It is illegal. Only when your MEC explicitly directs a legal (i.e. IAW the RLA) withholding of service can you order pilots not to do such and such.

The real problem was that if we had all just left well enough alone, the company would have soon realized that most pilots didn't want to fly OT for personal reasons that could not be challenged. Unfortunately we had some jerks actively harassing guys who chose to fly OT (even if I would not have) and that ruined it for all of us, hence the court fight.

But that was 7 years ago! Time moves on. I won't bring it up again if you don't.

 

[T Bone]

When you find that memo, can somone please put it in the captain's v-file who is picking up a trip as an f/o tommorrow night on the 767 going to AMS. I sure he is hoping it will be bought for IOE gotta call B.S. on this one.

 

[General Lee]

Considering DAL pilots pick up open time while people are on furlough, seems only fair you lost!

Maybe you didn't read it right, but we LOST the suit prior to 9-11 or any furloughs. It was during our C2K contract negotiations. You are right though, people did pick up overtime, although it was restricted on how much you could receive (any extra was banked) per month.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[taildragger48]

When you find that memo, can somone please put it in the captain's v-file who is picking up a trip as an f/o tommorrow night on the 767 going to AMS. I sure he is hoping it will be bought for IOE gotta call B.S. on this one.

You can't pick up trips out of your status. If two captains are listed as crew, it's probably a line check!

 

[T Bone]

You can't pick up trips out of your status. If two captains are listed as crew, it's probably a line check!

#1 he is listed as the F/O if he was getting a line check I would think he would be listed as the Captain or both of them would have captain in front of their names.

#2 the contract makes several references to flying in lower status including in compensation(Sec 3 part 5) A Captain picking up a trip as an IRO will be paid at the f/o rate.

If you can find a specfic section which prohibits this from occuring please let me know. This guy is know for the shenanigans he uses with scheduling to make extra pay, so I am not surprised at what he is doing.

 

[dalav8tor]

When I am receiving a line check I am listed as the FO for the trip.

 

[taildragger48]

#1 he is listed as the F/O if he was getting a line check I would think he would be listed as the Captain or both of them would have captain in front of their names.

#2 the contract makes several references to flying in lower status including in compensation(Sec 3 part 5) A Captain picking up a trip as an IRO will be paid at the f/o rate.

If you can find a specfic section which prohibits this from occuring please let me know. This guy is know for the shenanigans he uses with scheduling to make extra pay, so I am not surprised at what he is doing.

A captain can be junior-manned into a FO seat but absolutely cannot pick up an FO trip without CP approval. The only case where that happens, is where a captain is retiring and he picks a fellow captain to fly with him - and the other guy is paid at FO rate.

I've been at CAL 21 years and I've never seen a Captain just pick up a FO trip!

 

[T Bone]

A captain can be junior-manned into a FO seat but absolutely cannot pick up an FO trip without CP approval. The only case where that happens, is where a captain is retiring and he picks a fellow captain to fly with him - and the other guy is paid at FO rate.

I've been at CAL 21 years and I've never seen a Captain just pick up a FO trip!

Scheduling part 10 C.3 (Open time Pick-up) a pilot who picks up time in his equipment in a lower status will be paid at the pay rate applicable to the status flown.

I didn't see anything about chief pilot approval.(part 5 section G.1 does make reference to the Chief pilots office but that is for an entire monthly bid at lower status.) The junior man scenario also doesn't fly as he had the pairing more than 48 hours prior to departure. I agree it doesn't make much sense to pick up a trip in lower status but this guy is always trying to make an extra buck through dh, voluntary junior man etc.. He braggs continually about how he gets well over 150 hours of pay through these practices.

If it was a line check, wouldn't the check airman be reassigned to your pairing and not the other way around as is the case here.(reference monthly line bid awards for may) Do you know where to find the list of our line check airman? And did you look up the pairing to see for yourself.

 

[ultrarunner]

This guy is know for the shenanigans he uses with scheduling to make extra pay, so I am not surprised at what he is doing.

Hey man, regardless of what this guy is doing...he's prly getting a line check anyway...it's ALWAYS about working the system. That's why they call it a system!