Bird in Hand vs. CoEx recall

[Loafman]

I have a buddy that is a CoEx furloghee. He got a job at CommuteAir and was about to upgrade to CA when he got the recall from CoEx. He wants to go back to CoEx because he thinks CommuteAir sucks, but I think the PIC time is worth more than quality of life at this stage in his career. He is 25 years old. I say it's a small price to pay to make himself competitive later. Or he could go sling gear on an EMJ for the next 10 years.

Please comment on what you think would be better.

 

[Typhoon1244]

I have a buddy that is a CoEx furloghee. He got a job at CommuteAir and was about to upgrade to CA when he got the recall from CoEx.

I know a guy in exactly the same boat at Chicago Express. (He's going back to CoEx, though, without question.)

 

[Loafman]

He had a better chance of a good job at ATA by staying at CE.

 

[I.P. Freley]

I'll say go back to EJ, but not for the reason you might guess.

Reason?

If he thinks "it sucks", and those are actually his words and not yours, then I'm sure noone there likely would want to work with such a sourpuss Captain. Nothing worse for an FO than spending a day with a complainer.

Let someone who LIKES the job that your friend thinks "sucks" have the upgrade. I'd think that having the opportunity to fly for the last however-many months would be a good thing and he might be grateful for having a flying job... But I guess you can't please all the people all the time.

Worst of all scenarios is he turns down the recall, accepts the upgrade, and then is a miserable mess for the next few years. People will want to beat him to death with a pillowcase full of doorknobs if he pulls that nonsense.

 

[Loafman]

He thinks it sucks because he's not at home in 'Joisey. He's just not accustomed to what it takes to get somewhere in this business.

 

[350DRIVER]

EMB or a 1900- easy choice if it were me...


3 5 0

 

[bobbysamd]

Commutair PIC

If it were me, I would accept the upgrade and stay at Commutair. Your friend's attitude should brighten as he sees the 121 turbine PIC hours build in his logbook. The airplane might have props, but it is still legitimate 121 turbine time. Once he builds one thousand of those goodies he'll have far more options. He's at a good age and should continue to pump out resumes.

Just my two cents. Good luck to your friend with whatever he decides.

 

[njcapt]

He should probably stay at Commutair. At 25 he should be working on stacking the logbook for the next big hiring push - due in probably two years or so. He could be seen by majors as a seasoned airline Captain, or as another turboprop gear yanker depending on his choice.

I feel qualified to comment on his situation, since I managed to make a number of poor choices early on in my career. I thought the majors would hire an experienced corporate guy back in the late '80's. Wrong. I thought lots of SD3-60 and Dash-8 FO time would get some interest. Wrong. It wasn't until I left my comfortable job at one of the legacy regionals (there's a new term for ya) to be a street Captain for a shady third-rate one, that I got ANY interest from national jet operators.

I don't know if your friend is married or not, but if he isn't, the choice should be simple. Take the upgrade and build the requisite 1200 PIC turbine needed to take it to the next level. So what he'll only make a little more as a Captain at Commutair than he would as a FO at CoEx? He needs to look at the time it will take to get his dream job. Because it's not the extra pay he makes in the next couple of years. It's the extra years of major airline pay he'll miss out on when he's 55 - 60 years old. Waste a couple of years and it could cost him a million or two. No big deal, huh?

 

[Loafman]

EMB or a 1900- easy choice if it were me...


3 5 0

There's a well thought out reason. The instant gratification of moving from a portable blender into the right seat of the Portugese Lawn Dart. Never mind that it will cost him years to a real job vs. building PIC turbine for a 121 operator.

 

[350DRIVER]

There's a well thought out reason. The instant gratification of moving from a portable blender into the right seat of the Portugese Lawn Dart. Never mind that it will cost him years to a real job vs. building PIC turbine for a 121 operator.

I guess alot depends on personal preference, I had the opportunity to go to Lakes a few years back but had decided against it however he should do whatever is going to make him happy... If he dislikes CA and thinks it sucks then it seems like he has already made his mind up anyways. Right.? When I completed the COEX program a while back it was a completely different ballgame than it is present day so upgrade time there now is no joy and probably will be that way for quite some time to come unfortunately.

whatever he decides I wish him luck and "enjoyable" flying...


3 5 0

 

[saabcaptain]

Well I know the guy leaving Chicago Express for CoEx also and while we all make our choices in life I believe, "without question," he is making the wrong one. The guy is barely a month from upgrade with new airplanes coming in 04. Best wishes to him though.

 

[WrightAvia]

There's a well thought out reason. The instant gratification of moving from a portable blender into the right seat of the Portugese Lawn Dart. Never mind that it will cost him years to a real job vs. building PIC turbine for a 121 operator.

Sounds like PINHEAD, already has an answer to his own question. If your an "aviation god" why don't you just tell your boyfriend what to do with his pathetic life and shut the f@ck up.

 

[Loafman]

why don't you just tell your boyfriend what to do with his pathetic life and shut the f@ck up.

Because it's more fun to yank your chain.

 

[House_X]

One thing to remember about coex is that they furloughed a $#it load of people all at one time...if we get any blip on the economy or any war/security threats that affect pax flying...coex will do the same thing again. If you have a flying job with a lot of people under you...stay where your at. Nowadays, being at the bottom of ANY regional is a bad place to be.

 

[captjim]

One thing to remember about coex is that they furloughed a $#it load of people all at one time...if we get any blip on the economy or any war/security threats that affect pax flying...coex will do the same thing again. If you have a flying job with a lot of people under you...stay where your at. Nowadays, being at the bottom of ANY regional is a bad place to be.

Sounds like you know the complete history of Express Jet, but no, you're wrong. The furloughs were primarily due to the flow-through, which is now gone. When in the future a downturn in the economy happens, we will suffer the same effects as any other express type carrier. This is the first time COEX or XJT has furloughed in the past 10 years or there about.

There will be upgrades in the very NEAR future due to growth. Couple that with the CAL recalls in the first quarter and you see the movement at XJT will be quite swift to say the least.

 

[JohnDoe]

quote from wrightavia:

"Sounds like PINHEAD, already has an answer to his own question. If your an "aviation god" why don't you just tell your boyfriend what to do with his pathetic life and shut the f@ck up."



Ahh yes.......yet another useless, unproductive post from wrightavia........

Do you ever have anything useful to say, or is your sole purpose on this board to make mindless smart-@ss comments??

 

[Loafman]

Sounds like you know the complete history of Express Jet, but no, you're wrong. The furloughs were primarily due to the flow-through, which is now gone. When in the future a downturn in the economy happens, we will suffer the same effects as any other express type carrier. This is the first time COEX or XJT has furloughed in the past 10 years or there about.

There will be upgrades in the very NEAR future due to growth. Couple that with the CAL recalls in the first quarter and you see the movement at XJT will be quite swift to say the least.

These are the kind of details he needs to make an informed decision. Thanks.

 

[cargoflyr69]

I like the idea of trying to get a deferred recall date and upgrading, then make the choice later on down the road.

On the otherhand, "A bird in hand is worth two in the bush" Me, I like bush!...... not the presidential kind

 

[I.P. Freley]

I guess we need a definition of "near future".

Perhaps I am missing something, but people who were hired in early 2000 and upgraded in that same year are still sitting as FO's. They may be recalling a lot (I know at least two people who are going back in the next 2 or 3 weeks), but woe the guy who had over two years in the left seat, got downgraded, and is still sitting there.

Without spending a lot of time researching it, what is the story behind this alleged "swift movement" you refer to?

 

[captjim]

IP Freley, the movement will be the result of a 10% increase in projected block hours for next year as well as CAL recalls in the first quarter. There is a bid that will be out that will reflect about 50 upgrades. The projection for the "04" looks very good!

 

[I.P. Freley]

I see...

Is that 50 upgrades for the quarter, for the year, or what?

 

[Sam Fisher]

Actually, there will be 72 upgrades by the end of February. More to come once another bid comes through in a month or two....Things are finally looking up!!!

Sam

 

[House_X]

Sounds like you know the complete history of Express Jet, but no, you're wrong. The furloughs were primarily due to the flow-through, which is now gone. When in the future a downturn in the economy happens, we will suffer the same effects as any other express type carrier. This is the first time COEX or XJT has furloughed in the past 10 years or there about.

There will be upgrades in the very NEAR future due to growth. Couple that with the CAL recalls in the first quarter and you see the movement at XJT will be quite swift to say the least.

It seems a bit odd that Coex is suddenly having swift upgrades and fast recalls...seems like they would slowly recall the FO and upgrade the displaced CA. I'm not trying to pi$$ on anyone's parade...but I would be a bit dubious in leaving a CA upgrade to go to COEX...the stock market maybe up, but the overall economy is still in shambles. Majors are still furloughing.

 

[lookup]

Well there was almost some worthwhile dialog in the forum.. This guy at CA has some tough choices to make and in this industry, make a wrong move today can cost many years of time and many MANY $$s. IMO, he's selling short to get "the good life" in NJ flying right seat at CoEX for quite a while when he could suck it up, put on a smile, and fly the crap out of flipper for a couple of years and wave bye bye to the baby jets...

Too bad WrightAvia had to steer off into the ditch. Failed that V1 cut!

WrightAvia wrote:
Sounds like PINHEAD, already has an answer to his own question. If your an "aviation god" why don't you just tell your boyfriend what to do with his pathetic life and shut the f@ck up.

 

[Loafman]

Amen, brutha.

 

[bobbysamd]

Wrong decisions v. wrong decisions

This guy at CA has some tough choices to make and in this industry, make a wrong move today can cost many years of time and many MANY $$s. IMO, he's selling short to get "the good life" in NJ flying right seat at CoEX for quite a while when he could suck it up, put on a smile, and fly the crap out of flipper for a couple of years and wave bye bye to the baby jets...

I heard it said once that no matter what decision you/Loafman's friend makes, it'll be wrong. How about that for food for thought?

 

[lookup]

Well of course Bobby!!

There are only so many John Travolta type positions available per decade, and upgrades look pretty slow right now.. So everyone else who wants to fly jets and look cool doing it is stuck in this world...

Oh to be rich and good looking... Hell I"ll take either!

L

 

[LearLove]

He should probably stay at Commutair. At 25 he should be working on stacking the logbook for the next big hiring push - due in probably two years or so. He could be seen by majors as a seasoned airline Captain, or as another turboprop gear yanker depending on his choice.

I feel qualified to comment on his situation, since I managed to make a number of poor choices early on in my career. I thought the majors would hire an experienced corporate guy back in the late '80's. Wrong. I thought lots of SD3-60 and Dash-8 FO time would get some interest. Wrong. It wasn't until I left my comfortable job at one of the legacy regionals (there's a new term for ya) to be a street Captain for a shady third-rate one, that I got ANY interest from national jet operators.

I don't know if your friend is married or not, but if he isn't, the choice should be simple. Take the upgrade and build the requisite 1200 PIC turbine needed to take it to the next level. So what he'll only make a little more as a Captain at Commutair than he would as a FO at CoEx? He needs to look at the time it will take to get his dream job. Because it's not the extra pay he makes in the next couple of years. It's the extra years of major airline pay he'll miss out on when he's 55 - 60 years old. Waste a couple of years and it could cost him a million or two. No big deal, huh?

I fully agree with NJ. (Although the last 4 sentances of the second paragraph sound like something Kitt would say. Warning NJ, WARNING - Kitt is evil, step away from the evil guy.)

Anyway, there are some questions to ask though. First, can he put off the recall and stay at CA for say another 6 months and upgrade and get some PIC? If so do that, get some PIC and go back to Jersey.

Second, you say he's a Jersey boy. Well living at home and flying at home, that goes along way. Especially if at the age of 25 he lives with the parents, even at Coex FO pay be could saving big bucks that could be a downpayment on a house, or pay off the car and toss into a roth that now $$$ invested at 25 will be just as good as the 55-60 major years, but he knows it will be there unlike the airline pay/pension.

I guess it depends, I don't think he'll go wrong either way, at 25 there is plenty of time to recover. If it were me and I could I'd delay the call back and get some PIC then return to Coex. However, if delaying is not the case then it goes on how much he wants to be back home and if he has faith in Coex to grow and expand.

In the end remember, "Fate is the Hunter". The airline industry has a horrible way of destroying some of the most careful and best laid plans of an unluckey aviatior. Believe me I'm fixing some of that as we speak, many guys on this board know of a decision I made almost 3 years ago, based again on

some of the most careful and best laid plans

only to have them explode in my face.

Best of luck to your friend

 

[B1900DFO]

NJCapt "It's the extra years of major airline pay he'll miss out on when he's 55-60 years old. Waste a couple years and it could cost him a milion or two..."

I don't know about that statement. Maybe if you were hired in the late sixties. But these days of LCC's operating without pensions and maxing out around two hundred grand per year would definitely require more than a "couple years" to make a million or two on the backend. Unfortunately the majors have to match the sub-standard contracts at Airtran, ATA, Frontier, AWA, Jet Blue, ACA, etc. I would say a couple million is closer to your total career earnings at one of those places than the last couple years.

It is depressing when you look at what we, as a pilot group, have given up over the last 5 years in career expectations. This job is turning into more of a trade job than the world class profession it used to be.

 

[Capn Sac]

Have a friend who just got recalled to COex. One of the reasons they are recalling so many, is only 20% of those recalled are coming back. Take the Capt job.