background check question!! HELP

[guidoverduci]

When I filled out some forms for enlisting in the guard I said "had never been convicted of any alcohol related offenses." I put no. Now that I'm filling out this 20 page background check- it says list all alcohol related offenses even if they are sealed in your records. 8 years ago I got an MIP ( Minor in Possesion of alcohol). I was 17 so after a slap on the rist, it was sealed in my record. Question is, should I report it? I'm going to be going for a pilot slot eventually- how will this affect me. Especially after my initial applications don't say anything about my MIP.

 

[skyward80]

I think the background form is one of the few forms to ask you to declare this information whether or not the information comes from a sealed record. I would recommend declaring this information. I'm sure the folks at DSS could figure out whether or not you passed gas in Sunday school. So, I would definitely write in the requested info as the form states.

As far as the other forms, I would talk to your recruiter about it. However, if the form does not ask for information from a sealed record, I don't think it will hurt you. Be as forthright as possible, we all did stupid things when we were kids. About 20% of us got caught, the other 80% just got lucky. An MIP doesn't seem like such a big deal. Especially, if there's nothing before or after that incident that would suggest you have an issue with alcohol or complying with the law.

Skyward80

 

[guidoverduci]

thanks for the reply. That is what I was leaning towards. Anyone else have any thoughts, or something similar happen to them? What about once I apply for my upt slot- should this really be a big deal? Worse part is if/when they ask me to explain it and what happend- I'll tell them it wasn't my fault- which is true, but like they would believe me!! Total bummer how it happened- I didn't even drink at the time!

 

[skyward80]

I wouldn't use the words "not my fault". I know nothing about your situation, but I am sure that the officer who cited you had a reason. If you have to explain it, at least try to explain it from his/her point of view. It will make it sound more like you have accepted responsibility, learned from the mistake, and have moved on.

Skyward80

 

[guidoverduci]

You're absolutely right- I agree I shouldn't say it wasn't my fault. However even if I describe it in the officers point of view- it still isn't my fault. Basically to keep it short- some buddies were drinking in a parking lot- cops were approaching- beer was put in my car to hide- officer saw it- My choices were to take the MIP alone- or rat out some friends too. I'm Italian .. .. I don't rat, especially if I'm gettin in trouble either way! Believe me, the officer even explained the story to my parents at the time. I was screwed, and I hadn't even opened a beer before!! I know it sounds like a B.S. story, but the cop even said so. He said he was trying to "prove a point to everyone"

 

[Toro]

This won't be a big deal unless you try to cover it up. On my TS application, many of the things pertaining to my record asked for events that happened since I was 16 or in the last seven years, whichever was less (the latter for me). I had a couple incidents from when I was 16 or 17 that I didn't list because they weren't in that span. When I had my interview, the guy changed the wording of the questions and asked "Have you ever been charged with XXXX?" I told him yes, and the the best of my recollection told him what and when it was. He didn't even blink and didn't write anything down which to me meant that
a) He didn't care - or more likely
b) He already knew, despite the fact I didn't initially include it in my application and it should have been sealed.

As long as they're not felonies, the investigators really don't care much about stuff in your past. Mostly they want to make sure you're truthful with disclosing all your information. The issue with the investigation is to determine whether you can be placed in a position of trust.

 

[B52GUNNER]

When you have your interview they will most likely ask you about it. Just tell them the facts and dont try to explain your way out of it. They will find out about it. It does not matter that the records are "sealed" (Yeah right) . When I had my security check done years ago they went deep into the backround. It just depends on what type of clearance you are going for. TS SCI is going to be involved. It took almost 6 months from the time I filled out the form in basic until the final clearance came thru.

All I can say is be honest. IF they want to find out something they will.

Good luck!

 

[T1bubba]

The other posters are correct, definitely list it on your paperwork. You'll get the chance to explain why you didn't put it down when you enlisted at an interview.

One thing to keep in mind here- this paperwork NEVER goes away (as long as you're in the military, anyway). As long as you require security clearances you'll be filling out these same forms every few years. Every time you fill it out it will be compared to the other ones you've filled out in the past. It's a good idea to keep a copy of your EPSQ every time you submit one, not only will it allow you to make sure everything is consistent with the next one you fill out it also makes it easier to remember everything.

As skyward said, don't say it wasn't my fault. Your explanation sounds like you're trying to talk your way out of it. Even if you were drinking it's no big deal, but don't give the impression that you can't accept responsibility for your actions (you made the decision to hang out with people who would leave you holding the bag, right?)

T1bubba
Your friendly former DSS contractor

 

[guidoverduci]

thanks everyone- I am definetely going to put it on there. One final note- how can I find out what is on my record. I know I can't see the "sealed" ones, but can I see the other one. I can't remember when this all happened, and it's hard to be honest on my form when I can't remember when it happened. I'm not sure if I was 17 or 18- and I know this sounds funny but there might even be two on there. It's wierd and a long story- and there is a valid reason why I'm not sure whether there is one or two incidents- my question is can I look at my records?

 

[Andy]

"One final note- how can I find out what is on my record. I know I can't see the "sealed" ones, but can I see the other one. I can't remember when this all happened, and it's hard to be honest on my form when I can't remember when it happened."

Guidoverduci, I'm writing this for more than just you; there are a lot of lurkers who gain knowledge from questions like this.
Run your own background check on yourself. You know where the bodies are buried; see if there's anything documenting it. For instance, I had a REALLY crappy driving record when I was a teenager. I got a copy of my driving record; it listed date & details for all of my moving violations.
Even if you don't find any bodies, report everything to the best of your ability. One caution on this, though. If you ever did drugs, make sure that it wasn't more than once or twice. You will fall into the 'experimental' category. Anything more, and you're going to eliminate yourself from consideration.
One thing that I found when I ran a background check on myself is that the state of Maryland never takes moving violations off your record unless you request in writing to have it expunged. Most other states clear everything after 7 years. One exception is DUI/DWI ... they're in the national driver registry forever.

For those of you who have already gotten your security clearance and are approaching renewal, you can get a copy of it INCLUDING the DIA agent's notes by requesting it in writing from the DIA. Mine was a bit humorous; the DIA agent made a few errors in recording the information that I told him. Nothing negative for me in personal interviews. It was pretty handy for renewing my clearance.

Tailwinds,
Andy

 

[guidoverduci]

thanks again guys. I just got off the phone with numerous courts trying to find out what exactly is on my record. Turns out I was cited twice, once before 18, and once after 18 for an MIP. Both cases were dismissed. So the confusing part is that since I've never been convicted of these things- why are they still on my record?? Oh well- I'm still going to list them. The one before I was 18 has been sealed even though it was dismissed?! The people on the phone told me that since I went to a diversion class, which I don't remember going to, they were dismissed. They told me since I wasn't convicted, I shouldn't even report it??!!

 

[skyward80]

Report everything. If these guys/gals see you pulling your hair out to be as honest as possible with them, nobody will raise an eyebrow when the records are looked through later on. I had a minor moving violation on my record before I was 18, I contested it, and it was expunged. I obtained a copy of my driving record from the state in question and had NOTHING in the record. It was perfectly blank. However, I still told my future squadron, my recruiter, and the DSS about the moving violation. I made sure it was put on every piece of applicable paperwork too. I also put in the state certified copy of my record to prove that the violation had been expunged. REPORT EVERYTHING. Security clearances are no joking matter. Maybe Big Brother wasn't watching before, but they are now and they want to know all about you.

BTW, be careful... there is a legal difference in definition between "expunged" and "dismissed". Make sure you use the same terminology contained within your record. Your state will provide you with an official copy of your record, on request, for a small fee.

Skyward80

 

[Draginass]

Don't kid yourself. "They" can find out ANYTHING they want about you during a security clearance investigation. If you lie about anything, you can open yourself up to criminal charges.

 

[jergar999]

When a juvenile criminal record is expunged, they should notify you that it can still be opened by the following:

1. The Department of Defense in conducting background checks.

2. A federal law enforcement agency with the order of a court holding jurisdiction.

Honesty is the best policy, especially in this case.

 

[fieldw]

what if someone from your past "character bashes" you, say someone who does not like you for some reason. will that hurt your clearance chance or does there have to be proof, like a criminal record of some sort.

 

[Furious]

Guidoverduci- First...make sure you answer the question they are asking you. (ie. Have you ever been convicted of...?) If you've never been convicted for it...the answer is no. But, I would definately recommend noting that you were charged, but dismissed. I ran into a similar situation in the Air Force for a TS clearance, and that is exactly what they told me. If the question is open ended (ie Have you ever been charged...?) than answer appropriately.

fieldw- "Character bashes" alone cannot tarnish the application. The investigators will take into consideration that people sometimes talk about things they don't know about. I know someone who's references were asked about any drug use...they said yes (only because said persons friends had a reputation for doing it...so they assumed he did it too) The investigators dug until they got the real information...and he was cleared.

Hope this helps.

 

[jed]

apps, and questions

hey guys,
What about the drug questions?
Have you ever smoked marijuana? Does a "yes" usually disqualify you, even if you were a juvenile.

jed

 

[B52GUNNER]

That I would not admit to. Although Marijuana in itself will not disqual you. Coke on the other hand will. Best bet on that is as Nancy Reagan says "Just say no".
How are they going to find out you smoked a joint? unless you did it a lot, with a lot of people. On the other hand if you were a wake & baker then............

 

[fieldw]

B52, so you are advising to not tell if you have smoked pot? Doesnt that sound risky considering the depth that the investigators go into your background?

 

[B52GUNNER]

It depends on how much you smoked and who you smoked with...
if it was just a few times....and only with a couple of people that will not rat you out then no. However if you were a fiend, and were a well known pothead then I guess that you might want to say yes. It all depends on your level of comfortability.

From what I heard of from my backround check they talked to my neighbors, friends, teachers, and bosses. If you have a good report with them then you are OK. It goes back to your reputation. Dont sweat it. There is nothing you can do about it now. Just hope for the best.

Good Luck. Mine took almost 6 months to go through back in the late 80s. If you get worried about it for that long you will give yourself an ulcer.

 

[Av8rPHX]

ahhh... the lovely SF 86 form

 

[airgator]

Do all pilots require a TS? I know my paperwork for the secret has to be filed by the time I go to OTS, but do heavy drivers need a TS later on?

 

[HoursHore]

You need TS for any recon or tanker platform. I think you need it for spec ops stuff as well. When you get to T-1's everybody fills out the EPSQ (top secret questionairre) . Then depending on your assignment, the SP's and OIS schedules an interview. It ain't that hard to get.

P.S. If you smoked tell them. They will find out. Not only do they interview everyone you put down, but everyone your references refer them to. And if they find something you haven't told them, guess what, they keep digging. You probably haven't gotten this far by being a druggie. ( if you have, congratulations) We all make mistakes in our youth. Military officers fess up, and then learn from them. Admitting pot won't disqualify you. Now psychadelics on the other hand will.

 

[Pistlpetet]

Minor in Possesion of Alcohol??? Big deal! Fess up to that one, it does not involve anything reckless, violent, or pertaining to operating equipment. Your good. Like anyone who asks you about it had never drank a beer in High School.

Say NO to ALL drug questions, unless busted for drugs.

Only list your best friends as references, and then let them know the deal.

All you guys trying to get a pilot slot.....Don't confuse the depth of them finding out stuff with the background investigation of a TS clearance. When you first go into the military the local recruiter checks the court houses of places where you might have listed an incident or infraction. Then they do a GENERAL National Agency Check. They did not have an investigator at your junior prom when you smoked a joint with Sally Jane Rotten Crotch.

Once you are in and need a TS, then they are looking for Security Risk behavior ie.... Are you in severe Debt? Do you have an Alcohol/Drug Problem? Violent Behavior? Loyal to Country?

Busted by Sherif Billy Bob for having a six pack at the Mayberry county fair is not going to harm your future.

 

[B52GUNNER]

Well said. It is all hearsay unless the cops have something on you.

As for the TS and above. I can only speak for the heavy bomber part, but if you have access to any attack plans and Crypto you need TS. The Crypto is classified as TS. If you Fly you are going to have some form of crypto to verify orders in the air. If you have access to special weapons you are going to need SIOP and SBI or SCI plus restricted data clearances. TS is only a begining. Almost forgot the good old PRP program. That is not really a clearance but is an ongoing thing. Gg to the flight surgeon and get DNIF, you might get pulled off PRP depending on the medication. Of course that is only temporary. But it sucks if you have to hand in your line badge to the Sq commander for any length of time.

Good luck. and dont sweat it

 

[Pistlpetet]

b52gunner,
You got me curious about what PRP is. Especially since it says "PRP considered" on my clearance. We don't speak nukes in the Army, so I was never even aware of what that was. After some looking I now know what it is.

Pete

 

[B52GUNNER]

PRP is not a real big deal, but it is. It is basically everyone keeping an eye on each other all the time to make sure there is no big change....Basically your current state of mind. All people that have access to Special weapons (Nuke and other) are on the PRP program. Maint included.

 

[JetDeep]

No way no How! Dont fill out something thats sealed and something you've done 17 years ago. I'm amazed you even rememba it!

 

[hanksate]

What are the consequences to admiting to prior use if you have already said you havent used. How does the TS check work? Will they only talk to people I list and the people that I tell my people to list?

 

[talondriver]

I know a radar navigator who admitted to smoking marijuana on his SCI paperwork and they didn't kick him out. He didn't get his SCI level clearance but still remained on PRP.