Aviation Daily: Comair & ASA pilots try again

[vc10]

Aviation Daily's Wednesday issue (published tonight) says that Comair and ASA pilots are trying again to get Delta to merge them.

Not a snowball's chance in hell. Delta will sell/spin-off one of them before they let that happen.

 

[lowecur]

Aviation Daily's Wednesday issue (published tonight) says that Comair and ASA pilots are trying again to get Delta to merge them.

Not a snowball's chance in hell. Delta will sell/spin-off one of them before they let that happen.

It will happen, but not until Chapt 11. There isn't an investor in the world that would pay .25 on a dollar for either one of them until mother DL get's her house in order.

Greenjeans is the master magician. He has everybody watching his right hand (the DALPA situation), while he fully intends to bring the airline to 11 (with his left hand). The closer DALPA gets to what he wants, he'll just raise the ante again (saying mother DL needs more).

 

[vc10]

thought better of my reply

 

[~~~^~~~]

Anyone have the text of the article, or synopsis? Any new information?

 

[General Lee]

This from Lowecur who states United needs a $1.1 MILLION loan.....(title on his thread) Maybe he missed the ATL Journal Constitution article today that stated that other creditors have now agreed to talk to Pulumbo and Grinstein now that the pilots have signed on? If he gets everyone involved and then slams everyone with a Chap 11 filing when he has stated all along he would TRY TO AVOID it at all cost----he will be in trouble. Also, all of the creditors would ask why he didn't try to sell ASA/Comair, why he didn't take cuts from other employee groups (after the pilot cut) etc..... He is making way too much noise with all of the press to try to just "pull a fast one" on the pilots and all of the creditors.....


Bye Bye--General Lee

PS--Where are all of those new EMB-190 orders Lowecur? Where? Thank you for flying Song.

 

[lowecur]

This from Lowecur who states United needs a $1.1 MILLION loan.....(title on his thread) Maybe he missed the ATL Journal Constitution article today that stated that other creditors have now agreed to talk to Pulumbo and Grinstein now that the pilots have signed on?

You're a riot Alice. Next time you quote the ATL Journal you should at least take out a journalistic license.


Here's a few exerps from the article:

Some of Delta Air Lines' vendors want cash upfront because of the carrier's financial woes, but executives say they also see signs that pilots and suppliers are considering concessions to help revive the airline.

Delta Chief Executive Gerald Grinstein said Delta may also need to shed some hubs and pattern more of its operations after discount carriers as part of a broad-based restructuring.

First, Delta must deal with some suppliers' growing jitters. Delta now has to prepay for use of air traffic control services in Canada, Grinstein said.

He said a spike in pilot retirements could crimp Delta's cash flow if it doesn't have enough trained replacements. Almost 290 Delta pilots retired this month because of the airline's financial condition and fears of rising interest rates, which lower the value of their nest eggs.

More than a year ago, Delta asked its pilots, the highest-paid in the industry, for phased-in concessions and that would cut salaries about 30 percent and alter work rules. The union offered concessions worth about one-third as much.

Delta's demands have since risen as its financial condition has worsened, said Grinstein,who added it's "too late" for the union to accept Delta's earlier demands. Delta has warned it may have to restructure in a Chapter 11 bankruptcy if it cannot reduce pilot costs sufficiently.

A pilot union spokeswoman declined to discuss the union's coming offer.

Well ain't that a shocker. DL demands have risen. How about from 30 to 45%?

 

[General Lee]

Lowecur,


I was trying to locate the article, thank you anyway. The raise in percentage is for the whole contract, not just a straight pay cut, and Grinstein also said that he is ready to negotiate---doubtful he will get everything he wants. He will get a large pay cut, but very few are willing to give up many work rules since they are harder to get back. "Thems is the facts, mam." If he chooses to go into Chap 11 after all of the creditors allow their own concessions (and Dalpa actually went to a lot of these and secured the meetings)---without selling a piece of DCI and without getting additional pay cuts from other non-pilot employees (a last ditch effort before making the stock worthless---and a fiduciary responsibility)---then FINE. Doubtful. You would make a good management negotiator---scare tacticts are fun..... It all comes down to negotiations----and they will consist of mainly pay cuts. Then, overnight as I always say---a bond rating increase and then new financing from the capital markets will appear.....

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[lowecur]

Interesting: "Delta Chief Executive Gerald Grinstein said Delta may also need to shed some hubs and pattern more of its operations after discount carriers as part of a broad-based restructuring."

I wonder just how he is going to do that without 11? Closing DFW or SLC would most certainly kick Skywest's CL-65's right back at DL. You think they can just add them to the fleet at CMR/ASA? - I don't think so. Add that to all the options he has for the CRJ, and the fleet would be totally out of whack. Cincinati is too valuable to close, and trying to unload either CMR or ASA is impossible at this point.


Lots of double speak going on.

 

[rjcap]

Grinstein said Delta may do more point-to-point flying, and may develop a portfolio of products aimed at different customers.


A portfolio of products aimed at different customers ??

Sounds like the brand concept just went out the window.

 

[CTS]

Delta Non-Union are Next



General Lee, don’t think for a minute that the rest of Delta has not nor is going to take another pay cut. After the pilots take their cuts the other Delta employees are going to get a cut to. Management at Delta Tech Ops says that it’s going to be 15%. (Peter Jennings a few nights ago said 30%. Personally I think he is a little confused). This is of course is on top of the pay cuts through increased healthcare cost (about 4%). My father works in Tech Ops (16yrs) he got he information from the VP of Tech Ops during a routine morning meeting.



I fly for a US Express carrier, so I am frequently forced to fly US mainline. I also fly DL to work, so I see the difference in the to Airlines. Delta by far has a much better product. I hope that Grinstein doesn’t screw this whole thing up. Especially since I will soon be switching my colors to ASA.

 

[XRMEFLYER]

This from Lowecur who states United needs a $1.1 MILLION loan.....(title on his thread) Maybe he missed the ATL Journal Constitution article today that stated that other creditors have now agreed to talk to Pulumbo and Grinstein now that the pilots have signed on? If he gets everyone involved and then slams everyone with a Chap 11 filing when he has stated all along he would TRY TO AVOID it at all cost----he will be in trouble. Also, all of the creditors would ask why he didn't try to sell ASA/Comair, why he didn't take cuts from other employee groups (after the pilot cut) etc..... He is making way too much noise with all of the press to try to just "pull a fast one" on the pilots and all of the creditors.....


Bye Bye--General Lee

PS--Where are all of those new EMB-190 orders Lowecur? Where? Thank you for flying Song.

GG will be in "trouble" huh.

Yeah, he'll be hangin in the Hampton's with Kenneth Lay laughing about all of the money they still have when this is all said and done.

Denial Private. It aint a river in Egypt!

 

[jarhead]

With respect to the non-union employees being asked next to take a large pay cut, I have a general question. Are the non union employees paid well now? I know that's a relative term, and there are probably a thousand answers to it. The point is, with the ecconomy starting to be in recovery, unemployment nationaly dropping, and many employers in the private sector in the Purchasing Managers survey stating that their companies will be adding head count, would that not be a problem for Delta, if many long time non union emplyees said "screw it", and left for other employment? Most people when abused too much by their employer will leave for greener pastures if the opportunity presents itself, and the long term outlook is dim at their current employer. Unlike pilots, who must go to the bottom of a seniority list, starting over for non union folks does not present that barrier. Market demand for good folks is always there, and if the rest of DAL is 'gutted' by folks in Atlanta and other locals jumping ship, how would that help the struggling airline?

 

[Palerider957]

Grinstein said Delta may do more point-to-point flying, and may develop a portfolio of products aimed at different customers.


A portfolio of products aimed at different customers ??

Sounds like the brand concept just went out the window.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm........I think Grinstein is holding the DALPA list in his hand, saying "wake up the Gimp."

 

[C425Driver]

With regards to the original post, can someone post the article?

 

[General Lee]

In that other Delta article, Grinstein said he liked the Song product and was surprised at how well it was doing. (at the end of the article) Other than that, I don't know what he will do with Song, or what he will do with DCI. There is a lot of "double talk" going on. As far as closing the hub"S", I think DFW is on its way out, and I don't know about SLC--it has been doing better as of late supposedly. (from what the ATL CP says) I think they will try to build up ATL more with the rolling hub concept (apparently that will give us 30-40 extra daily flights to combat Airtran), and CVG is not going anywhere. NYC has INTL flights from JFK and the Shuttle from LGA. LA is a pilot domicile to allow LESS hotel layovers from all of the longer East Coast flights.


CTS,

Grinstein has been saying that his non-union employees would NOT get a pay cut, but that could change I am sure. He has stated that in several "jerry's kids" town hall meetings. He again may be saying what everyone wants to hear. But, don't think that we--Delta pilots---don't believe a pay cut is coming our way. The reason it has taken awhile is because a quick pilot pay cut would NOT have scared the creditors to come on board and give us other needed cuts. Only have pilot pay cuts would have equated to a "bandaid"--and 15 months down the road we probably would have been in the same situation. Cuts from vendors and creditors, along with a big pilot pay cut, should give us a much needed boost in credit ratings (which were cut again today by Moody's---which was EXPECTED)---and when an agreement is in place those credit ratings will shoot upwards---giving us the ability to refinance easier with cheaper money. That is the plan---and it is slowly coming into play---but expect a lot of negatives before we hear positives---that is just part of this.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[MedFlyer]

The reason it has taken awhile is because a quick pilot pay cut would NOT have scared the creditors to come on board and give us other needed cuts. Only have pilot pay cuts would have equated to a "bandaid"--and 15 months down the road we probably would have been in the same situation.

Bye Bye--General Lee

Not long ago, you were screaming that DL should just take whatever cuts it could get from the pilots to save money immediately. Now, you are saying that a quick pilot pay cut is not good. So are you saying that management's strategy of not accepting DALPA's lowball offer was smart? Apparently, Jerry's "double talk" is rubbing off on you.....

 

[CTS]

General

The employesses at DL have already taken a pay cut. They have to pay a lot more each month in health care. Thus less money in their pockets. Plus they loose a few payout options on the pension after 2007. Pay cuts in the future, Well, no one really knows. Look at US Air. Mgt is going back for more cuts.

 

[lowecur]

The reason it has taken awhile is because a quick pilot pay cut would NOT have scared the creditors to come on board and give us other needed cuts. Only have pilot pay cuts would have equated to a "bandaid"--and 15 months down the road we probably would have been in the same situation.

Bye Bye--General Lee

I knew it, Greenjeans and the pilots are in kahoots.