Anybody know the airnet guy that landed at bkv at 3:00 today?

[hotwings402]

Anybody Anybody?

Wow, guess your exempt from pattern entries.

 

[FL000]

Without all the info, it's difficult to say whether he did anything wrong or not. He's certainly not obligated under the FARs to perform a pattern entry.

Was there radio communication, busy pattern, etc.?

 

[hotwings402]

He did a straight in to final and cut us off when we were on base

 

[zugzug]

Why didn't you just land and ask him/her.

 

[threegreen]

what kind of airplane were you in. what was he in?

good thing you made a post about this on flightinfo.

 

[hotwings402]

what kind of airplane were you in. what was he in?

good thing you made a post about this on flightinfo.

Why is it a good thing?

 

[mynameisjim]

Would it make you feel better if I said it was me and you could vent in my direction?

Maybe it would make you feel better if we all agreed with you and said that the Airnet guy was a jerk and broke the rules?

Hmm...well it wasn't me, and there is nothing wrong with a straight in approach.

 

[hotwings402]

Why didn't you just land and ask him/her.

Because at the time it was'nt a big deal but he reported me to the airport manager so I got a little pissed, however it was'nt my fault I had been in the pattern for a hour he came in and made a doglegged 45 degree final entry, guess he had to save another .1 or something.......

 

[check6]

He was in a hurry, not pleasure flying, and had to meet the courier.

 

[OUPilot]

Maybe your radios were not working and were not transmitting.

 

[100fly]

I did it. Every Second Counts! We can loose thousands of dollars by missing a deadline by even a minute. Even with a barron.

 

[dhc8fo]

Although more details are in order, you need to know that there is nothing wrong with a straight in approach.

I was recently a victim of this and the guy on downwind turned base with his student RIGHT in front of me inside of a 2 mile final at 700 feet. I went around.

I found out who he was and had a little discussion with him....it was his opinion that since he had been in the pattern all day long that my calls (from 10 miles out) and my entry didn't matter and he was willing to risk some lives to make a point. Needless to say that guy is on my pooperlist and will now be blacklisted by others who respect me and my opinions.

Aviation is a small community. Give a little professional courtesy now and then and it will also be given back to you. Everyone makes mistakes, but it is not worth it to see who wang is bigger when there are lives at risk.

 

[RSixer]

Don't you remember from your Private days that Airnet has the right away over all other aircraft, that's just basic FARs. AIRNET ooooraahhh!!!

 

[zugzug]

Wait a second

dhc8fo
Although more details are in order, you need to know that there is nothing wrong with a straight in approach.

Sure, if nobody is in the pattern or you can land without cutting someone off.
What do you think patterns are for?

dhc8fo
I was recently a victim of this and the guy on downwind turned base with his student RIGHT in front of me inside of a 2 mile final at 700 feet. I went around.

If you were on final and he was in the pattern.. Chances are he was lower and closer than you and has the RIGHT OF WAY!

dhc8fo
Needless to say that guy is on my pooperlist and will now be blacklisted by others who respect me and my opinions.

Wow! Your list? Put me on there, I want to feel the reprecussions.. Oh god, please don't ruin my career.

 

[hotwings402]

Although more details are in order, you need to know that there is nothing wrong with a straight in approach.

I was recently a victim of this and the guy on downwind turned base with his student RIGHT in front of me inside of a 2 mile final at 700 feet. I went around.

I found out who he was and had a little discussion with him....it was his opinion that since he had been in the pattern all day long that my calls (from 10 miles out) and my entry didn't matter and he was willing to risk some lives to make a point. Needless to say that guy is on my pooperlist and will now be blacklisted by others who respect me and my opinions.

Aviation is a small community. Give a little professional courtesy now and then and it will also be given back to you. Everyone makes mistakes, but it is not worth it to see who wang is bigger when there are lives at risk.

Careless and reckless you were not using a recommended or approved pattern entry and if a midair occured you would have been cited it for not following a recommend procedure as per the aim at some point the other guy in the pattern was lower than you and had right of way how came first the jerk making a straight in or the guy following the recommended procedure flying a PATTERN. geez

 

[FlyChicaga]

I don't think you could get any more of a run-on sentence going there.

 

[zugzug]

No period at the end of your sig. Are you on it?

 

[dhc8fo]

Careless and reckless you were not using a recommended or approved pattern entry and if a midair occured you would have been cited it for not following a recommend procedure as per the aim at some point the other guy in the pattern was lower than you and had right of way how came first the jerk making a straight in or the guy following the recommended procedure flying a PATTERN. geez

OK, I THINK I understood some of that one....

ohhhh contrare mon frare (in my best french accent).... NOWHERE in the AIM or the regs does it say that pattern entries are REQUIRED (and I have never heard of an "approved" pattern. What it does say is that the person at the lower altitude in the pattern does have the right of way but that he cannot use that as a means to cut someone off (which is what happened in MY case).

No, I would not have been cited in this case since the other four people in the pattern heard and saw everything and I was not in the wrong (and if it makes you feel better, one was an examiner on the field who I also talked to about this).

And as far as my "list" goes... you just wait. Once you get a little more experience, you will see just how small this community is. If you guys go around cutting off your brethren in the pattern just because you feel like it when he wants to make a straight in approach, word will spread that you are a dick and you won't be getting a lot of calls to sit right seat....

 

[treetopflyer]

He did a straight in to final and cut us off when we were on base

what you forgot to add was that your pee'd in your pants and your student laughed at you.

dork

 

[BushwickBill]

Forget about who's wrong or right just do this....

We have the same problem. I'm going to leave this vauge so I dont jepordize myself but this works. We are based out of a small uncontrolled airport. We land a aircraft there that is about as big and fast as you can get for a normal landing on a 3600 ft runway. Needless to say its rough fitting into the pattern with a bunch of 152's bonazas and ultralights. In fact it would be unsafe. So. We report we are using the IFR approach as we make a straight in landing. Most GPS approaches have a straight in leg so we report that. Before we did this most people would cut us off in a Taylorcraft because "Dammit I was here FIRST". Even though its dangerous there ego was getting the better of them. Its hard to convay that a large turbine a/c cant fit into a traffic pattern with light piston singles to gods gift to aviation. I still drive a small piston single and I always give way to bigger.

 

[T-Storm Chaser]

OK, I THINK I understood some of that one....

ohhhh contrare mon frare (in my best french accent).... NOWHERE in the AIM or the regs does it say that pattern entries are REQUIRED (and I have never heard of an "approved" pattern. What it does say is that the person at the lower altitude in the pattern does have the right of way but that he cannot use that as a means to cut someone off (which is what happened in MY case).

No, I would not have been cited in this case since the other four people in the pattern heard and saw everything and I was not in the wrong (and if it makes you feel better, one was an examiner on the field who I also talked to about this).

And as far as my "list" goes... you just wait. Once you get a little more experience, you will see just how small this community is. If you guys go around cutting off your brethren in the pattern just because you feel like it when he wants to make a straight in approach, word will spread that you are a dick and you won't be getting a lot of calls to sit right seat....

1. Get a life, and get over it.

2. Better yet, get a beer and get yourself laid.

Some of you folks whine too much. As far as "your list" goes, that just makes you sound like a serial killer. Refer back to rule #1 & 2.

 

[100fly]

I use to fly in the pattern all of the time and always gave way to larger and faster aircraft who were on an approach, strait in, who cares. They are probably going a lot faster that the aircraft in the pattern and will be out of your way in less than .0001 on the hobbs. Not a big deal.

 

[dash8driver]

He did a straight in to final and cut us off when we were on base

were you talking on ctaf to the guy? or where was tower?

 

[Wankel7]

Wait, I dont understand...the guy that did the straight in said something to the airport manager?

What could he possibly say to the airport manager?

 

[idratherfly4283]

wait, wait let me get this straight... who cares? Quit crying about how someone cut you off in the pattern on a message board, if you have a problem be a man, or a woman, and go and talk to the person. Don't be a little baby and complain about it on here.

 

[8inMan]

It would have been a good thing to teach your student that this type of thing happens regularly at airports all over the country. You just talk to the a/c doing the straight in and coordinate with him. Extend your downwind a little if you have to. Its common courtesy and common practice. Don't tell your student that the pilot of the larger a/c is a jerk. You're just giving that student a foundation for future air rage.

 

[dhc8fo]

It would have been a good thing to teach your student that this type of thing happens regularly at airports all over the country. You just talk to the a/c doing the straight in and coordinate with him. Extend your downwind a little if you have to. Its common courtesy and common practice. Don't tell your student that the pilot of the larger a/c is a jerk. You're just giving that student a foundation for future air rage.

AMEN...

 

[starchkr]

Where does it state that a pattern MUST be used at an airport???????? A straight in is just as "legal" per the FAR's as a full downwind entry to land at any airport. Does this airport have a tower???? Were YOU talking to the other a/c on final???? I know it is policy here, and taught very strongly that when approaching an uncontrolled field that we announce our position and give our intentions and then ask for "any traffic in the area." Now did the pilot do this...if so then you have just as much responsibility to respond and work out a sequence with him as he does with you. Now if he did not do any of this, then yes he was at fault, and he should have made a better effort...but then, were you talking to begin with and did you have your radios tuned correctly? Now before you jump on me about having your radios tuned correctly "ALL THE TIME" as a flight instructor, just let me tell you i make mistakes as well with them. I remember not too long ago taxing out at a controlled field (after the tower closed, so really an uncontrolled field) using the tower frequency for a field 200 miles away, or how about the time i reached up to tune another radio and turned the volume all the way down on the primary in use. Crap happens, and who knows exactly what did happen here since none of us were there with you, but as has been said, you really needed to talk to him personally about it rather than trying to start something here on this board. I like the response about teaching your student how this does happen in real life, and while teaching that also teach them that a pattern IS NOT required and that there may just be times when it is prudent to not use one...there are actually many lessons you can begin to teach from this "incident", so begin to use them and be more vigilant than ever.

edit: I have no clue who the pilot is, and i really have no idea where bkv is.

 

[501261]

Careless and reckless you were not using a recommended or approved pattern entry and if a midair occured you would have been cited it for not following a recommend procedure as per the aim at some point the other guy in the pattern was lower than you and had right of way how came first the jerk making a straight in or the guy following the recommended procedure flying a PATTERN. geez

You may want to rethink you thinking!

Here's a link of an NTSB decision where a Citation made a straight-in and 150 with CFI on board doing pattern work. Guess who got their licenses revoked?

http://www.ntsb.gov/alj/O_n_O/docs/aviation/4236.PDF

That's right, aircraft on FINAL have right of way according to 91.113, but more importantly you need to See and Avoid. Look everybody will make some mistakes. Believe me, if you fly long enough you will be cut off lots, and you may even mistakenly cut someone off. Chalk it up to charma.

If it makes you feel any better I cut off an Amerflight the other day, he got a couple of shirts out of it though as I felt real bad about it.

 

[501261]

guy in the pattern was lower than you and had right of way how came first the jerk making a straight in or the guy following the recommended procedure flying a PATTERN. geez

You may also want to rethink your attitude. The other guy a "jerk" for "cutting you off", you've been doing pattern work for over an hour, how about extending some common courtesy and simply extending you downwind a little.